Blakes7 June 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

61 participants
258 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Duel
by Sally Manton 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Susan Beth wrote: <What if the Feds run a version of Raiker's threat on a larger scale? "Surrender yourself or we pump poisonous gas into some Dome full of thousands of innocent farmers/workers"?> <grin> I spent some time trying to work out in my own mind what he would do if someone tried to use innocents (say, a spaceship full of children, and a self-destruct button) against him. Came to the conclusion he'd give himself up fast enough (from the evidence of Horizon) but the Liberator -? I still *haven't* quite made up my mind on that one (which says a lot for how the white-hat hero got greyed in Boucher's and Thomas's hands). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Trivia query re Duel
by tavia＠btinternet.com 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Does anyone happen to know what kind(s) of bat we see in Duel? Tavia

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Re: Duel
by tavia＠btinternet.com 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Ellynne wrote: >After all, Travis seemed uninterested in hunting down > Citizen Blake when he was a good and law abiding zombie. Hmm. I assumed that was during the period where Travis was up to his neck in slime and lasers somewhere far from Earth. He might not have known that Blake was alive until the authorities chose to inform him. Tavia

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Re: Duel
by Sally Manton 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Dana wrote: < well, WHENEVER you have the chance to kill an implacable enemy who has been driven insane by a desire for vengeance on you... kill him!> I think there's an unknown Law of Nature at work here. Not only doesn't Blake kill his implacable enemy, but (leaving the question of *everyone's* sanity for the moment) Avon doesn't, Tarrant doesn't, Dayna doesn't, Travis doesn't (has to have time to gloat first, by which stage the Cavalry arrive), Servalan doesn't ... The entire *Federation* doesn't (they had Blake at the beginning - twice - and thought up excellent reasons to let him live. They then spend two seasons wavering between 'blast him out of the sky' and 'no, wait, we want that ship'!!!) It's like Stormtrooper's Disease ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] It's My Noble Nature (was Heros & heroines)
by Sally Manton 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Ellynne wrote: <The lost soul is 1) Tormented (well, _I_ think so)> Yes, but does he normally enjoy tormenting others as well <g>? <8) [Attention, Avon droolers] Loves fiercely and hates just as passionately (just because he doesn't talk about it doesn't mean it isn't so)> You got me there :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Lost Causes
by Sally Manton 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Ellynne wrote: <Avon is stuck with Nebrox, his adopted grandfather. > This may be the most appealing idea I've heard since Harriet's last Jarriere saga :-) I love it. <Is anyone being watched by their adoptive grandfather going to gun down a friend, especially when he hasn't been primed by Orbit?> and it gets even better. Of course not. Maybe he even told Grandad about the whole thing beforehand. In any case, Neebrox is a wily old thing, and might have kept his head when Avon was losing his mind in there ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] It's My Noble Nature (was Heros & heroines)
by Susan Beth 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Otis Lou Bohr wrote: (and sorry for the duplicate copy. I'm an old dog, I can't seem to learn new tricks.) >At 05:33 PM 6/13/01 -0400, Susan Beth wrote: > >>In fact, Fox Mulder is given as one of the examples for The Lost >>Soul (Scully is a Librarian) > >...which you say corresponds with the male "Professor"...further fodder for >my (Avon == Scully) hypothesis! (;-p) Yes, I could see Blake and Avon as Mulder & Scully....of course, the plots would change a lot. Blake's not nearly as prone to mournful kicked-puppy-dog passive suffering as Mulder, and far more likely to aggressively go after the conspirators openly and publicly. Which probably would get him snuffed rather quickly. >Well, not having read the book in question, nor being particularly >well-versed in the Psychology of Avon, I hesitate to dispute this, even >though I feel inclined to (but I will argue that if delusions of morality >are a prerequisite for Lost Soulhood surely Travis is even *less* qualified >than Avon--Travis' motivation for revenge (against Blake, the Federation, >humanity) being "you hurt *me*"). I think I phrased that point badly. The 'morality' hasn't to do with what the Lost Soul himself does, it's that he feels the world/some set of it has broken the rules in dealing with *him*. He thinks he has suffered unjustly, had something stolen from him, been cheated out of what should have been his, and so on. This attitude comes out clearly in "Trial" -- Travis feels his actions were justified, right, what the military taught him to do and *wanted* him to do, but that they are now hanging him out to dry for reasons political and personal. He's aggrieved. [Is that almost a pun?] So the world/humanity has hurt HIM, so to hell with the world/humanity. I think it also applies to his feelings against Blake's crippling him. Sure, Blake was fighting back, but Travis was Just Doing His Job while Blake was the miscreant. Surely natural justice requires Blake to be the one to suffer/die/get maimed, not himself. (From Travis' POV, that is.) I don't see that attitude in Avon. He was consciously breaking the rules, and accepts that his punishment was deserved -- though probably more for his mistakes in relying on the wrong people and whatever he did/didn't do that got him caught, I don't mean he feels guilty over the attempted theft itself. He doesn't feel angry or betrayed by the system/humanity/whatever, just annoyed that he failed to played the game well enough to win. >Come on, some Avon expert out there, support my case. I mean look at me, >I'm talkin' about Avon! I'm this close to converting! Don't you want me on >your team? Huh? Huh? Hmmm. Okay, we'll take Penny, but that means you guys have to take the fat kid. Susan Beth (susanbeth33(a)mindspring.com)

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Re: [B7L] It's My Noble Nature (was Heros & heroines)
by Ellynne G. 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 13:05:35 -0600 Otis Lou Bohr <pd(a)powersurfr.com> writes: > Well, not having read the book in question, nor being particularly > well-versed in the Psychology of Avon, I hesitate to dispute this, > even > though I feel inclined to (but I will argue that if delusions of > morality > are a prerequisite for Lost Soulhood surely Travis is even *less* > qualified > than Avon--Travis' motivation for revenge (against Blake, the > Federation, > humanity) being "you hurt *me*"). > > Come on, some Avon expert out there, support my case. I mean look at > me, > I'm talkin' about Avon! I'm this close to converting! Don't you want > me on > your team? Huh? Huh? Ooo, a _challenge_. Avon as Lost Soul (the following is a selective list of quotes - evidence against the case was left out [technically, this is because the contradictions are covered by Avon being a layered character and _not_ for less admirable motives on my part]), let me count the ways . . . . The lost soul is 1) Tormented (well, _I_ think so) 2) Filled with angst and passion 3) [A] wounded spirit 4) A baffling puzzle of a man 5) Mystery and solitude surround him 6) Creative genius 7) He always remembers 8) [Attention, Avon droolers] Loves fiercely and hates just as passionately (just because he doesn't talk about it doesn't mean it isn't so) 9) Every wrong done to him is experienced intensely 10) Unable to find his way back to a land of promise and hope, so instead, he lurks in his cave [or science lab, as the case may be] 11) Unwilling to risk being vulnerable 12) Stuck in a perpetual cycle of pain 13) He feels deeply, whether he admits it or not Oh, and here's a good one 14) While his mystery and tragedy may intrigue people, his pessimistic view of life drives them away 15) Unforgiving 16) Fatalistic 17) Immediately sees the negative in people and knows they won't change And another good one 18) Catastrophe is around every corner 19) Isolating event in his past definded the LOST SOUL Hey, we know it happened, don't we? 20) The LOST SOUL never joined in any of the reindeer games 21) The strong, stubborn part of him refused to bow down 22) He endured the painful ridicule with a hardened stare 23) A loner 24) He could easily score straight As if his interest was caught, [if not], he was likely to skip class 25) Separation and lonliness became a way of life for him 26) His isolation grew, his mistrust deepened S4, anyone? 27) He noticed every lie, every betrayal 28) Creates his own kingdom, either literally or inside himself. 29) Wants to be left alone And there's at least one reference to a Lost Soul with 30) Acid wit Not to mention 31) Function well admist chaos 32) Pay attention to details 33) Take their jobs seriously and, last but not least, 34) Are detached from their coworkers And there's also the entry under the LS occupation Gunfighter: "The world is a savage and unforgiving place, and only those who take care of themselves survive. Used to being alone and trusting no one, the LOST SOUL refuses to be part of a society riddled with hypocrisy and corruption. "He is good at slipping in and out of towns [insert planets] undetected. His cool eyes and steady hand hide his emotions and make him the odds-on favorite to win any fight, but he picks and chooses his battles, protecting only himself." Read 'Shane' for further details. Whew, so, there's the case for Avon as Lost Soul. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Lost Causes
by Ellynne G. 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 06:45:17 -0000 "Sally Manton" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> writes: > Una wrote: > <At heart, Stephen, I am a woman of principle. Not even I could > extoll the > virtues of 'Power'. Plus, I do have some sense of > self-preservation.> > > Oh come on, I'm sure we could between us all come up with Ten Good > Things > About Power surely ... > > Couldn't we? > > I'll start the ball rolling. > > Umm. Errr. Tarrant and Vila and the bit about rats. The telekinetic necklaces. Give them to someone else and there might be a very interesting story in the works. Or, suppose Kate had survived and joined the crew. That might have been interesting. She'd have a lot of naivity about the culture she'd joined but she'd also have the galaxy's most cynical tutors trying to explain it to her. And S4 might have been different with a telekinetic. For example, in Stardrive, they'd have had someone who could have made the final connection without risking electrocution. No, no, it's happening again. I'm thinking of stories I have no time to write. That said - In Assassin, she'd probably be confused by Piri's behavior - I'd guess Seska, once _rescued_ from males with villainnous intent, would try to prove they're as in control as ever. So, she'd be suspicious or at least curious. Piri would try to get rid of her first, throwing the crab pin at her. Kate would catch it telekinetically and throw it back. Piri dies horribly about five minutes after she's introduced. Everyone else survives. Avon is stuck with Nebrox, his adopted grandfather. In Headhunter, she could have flipped the android's offswitch from a distance (of course he had one - it doesn't have to make sense, it just has to fit the needs of the plot). It seems like she should have made a difference in Orbit, but I don't know if she could give the ship that much more lift (still, weighs less than Vila, could probably get more stuff off the shuttle faster, and can add a small amount to the ship's lift, that might have had enough of a cumulative effect. Also, as battle trained Seska, she's probably more trained to think of what could be dragging an object down and how to deal with it simply out of day to day survival). In Warlord, she could turn off the virus bomb without taking her gloves off. Zeeona, her father's heir, survives - and has a Dayna sized beef with Servalan. Blake - Is anyone being watched by their adoptive grandfather going to gun down a friend, especially when he hasn't been primed by Orbit? For that matter, after Dr. Plaxton continued to modify Scorpio, did it ever get shot down in the first place? And, if you have a naive telekinetic in your group who has convinced herself her old friend shot her by mistake while under pressure, does she worry about other people doing the same thing and is she ready to move the gun when they do? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Duel
by Sally Manton 16 Jun '01

16 Jun '01

Dana wrote: <I just keep thinking of the (still alive) tropical fruit farmers saying, Damn, that Blake sure is corrupt and not minding compared to the alternative.> Who says they'd still be alive? Did not the Andromedans kill them off by using Star One *in* a corrupt manner? Can you imagine how many Aurons someone like Servalan could - maybe would - have flicked the switch on for her personal gain? Blake is a good man, but he's a dangerous man, *because* of his ability to use violence without emotion, *because* of his ability to make others follow where they don't necessarily want to go, *because* of his legendary status. He already has a formidable weapon of mass destruction in the Liberator if - like Travis - he decided to take personal revenge on the galaxy for his own wrongs, and who cares who gets hurt in the bargain. In 'Killer', he could have used the plague to get rid of his chief enemy. And in the hands of a man as ruthless as he can be, without the guards that his own integrity lay on him, Star One could have created a whole galaxy planets just like Sinofar's. As a good man pursuing a violent path, he's walking a tightrope. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 June 2001