Blakes7 June 2001

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258 discussions

Programme Guide
by Dana Shilling 11 Jun '01

11 Jun '01

I bought a copy of the Programme Guide at a used book store yesterday, and I know that although it is far from infallible on factual matters, it is certainly interesting what was left out (reference to anyone except Blake as an Alpha; interviews with Gareth Thomas, Sally Knyvette, or Jacqueline Pearce). The Guide says that Muller's first name was Elton (Seems to me your head was like a candle in the wind) and the Duel mutoid's name is spelled Kie-Eyre and not Kiera. Does that make Travis Mr. Rochester, who also lost a hand and was blind for a while? Or that Travis has a mad wife in the attic who got Kie- Eyre modified? -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] Where is everybody?
by Sally Manton 11 Jun '01

11 Jun '01

Una wrote: <The tape was - of course - labelled 'Blake's 7'. I couldn't fucking believe it. Of course, I instantly had to drop everything to find out what episode it was.> It would be too *too* joyous if it turned out to be Animals ... <Or maybe I spontaneously generate B7 wherever I go.> What a lovely idea :-) Could you try and generate some new Season 2 for me. Now had it been me, it would probably have been a decrepit copy of <shudder> On the Buses ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Where is everybody?
by Natasa Tucev 11 Jun '01

11 Jun '01

Una wrote: > >One drawer was empty except for a single video cassette, the only tape I'd seen >in the house. 'Ooh,' I thought, turning to read the label. 'I wonder what's on >this.' > >The tape was - of course - labelled 'Blake's 7'. I couldn't fucking believe it. It's not good enough, Una. Next time you have to try harder and find a penguin in the closet. N.

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Re: [B7L] H&H: Cally as Waif
by MMarcobi＠cs.com 11 Jun '01

11 Jun '01

In a message dated 10/06/01 10:19:17 GMT Daylight Time, smanton(a)hotmail.com writes: << blakes7(a)lists.lysator.liu.se >> I suspect avon was probably far less (if at all) aware of his physical attractiveness, than he was his intelligence. Cases in point: Avon could easily have taken advantage of Meegat (who he obviously found tiresome.) ST's Kirk certainly would have done (he knew he was 'attractive' and acted thus!). Avon was for the most part a one-woman man, and would require a mindmate rather than a disillusioned nubile dupe. Hence the interest in Servalan. Sarcophagus. Wouldn't you smile too if a friend of yours kissed your evil doppleganger? The Avon/Cally relationship during series three (ignoring anything Blake said in 'Voice') was based upon Cally being the only other 'intuitive' (other than Orac) since Blake had gone. There was sympathy as illustrated, but Avon was still a man alone. Cally was a 'believer', therefore no more a 'soul-mate' to Avon than Blake was. Orac on the other hand... The Avon/Pella kiss. I dislike this episode, but if it has to be analysed, Avon's treatment of Pella in that scene seems to point to the fact that Avon was able to make an immediate judgement of Pella, based on instinct - something none of the others could have done - and as a result, reacted outwardly to it. The kiss is pure bile, rather than an expression of sexual attraction. Also, counting Avon's tenacity at resisting pain, (Hackers are almost as renowned for their stamina as they are their ability to survive on coffee) and his spite at women-in-general, it's possible that these were manifestations of his 'shadow' feeling function, which unleashed in people like Avon is often naive, misguided and inappropriate. (See also the mad laughter in 'Gold', and there are other examples of him 'ratting off'. This interpreted as a 'panic attack' probably accounts for 'Blake' too.) He may also of been subconsciously trying to convince himself, which is hard when the perception in question is based on an irrational function, as is intuition. Hence, I would argue that both emotion and intuition be subordinate to intellect, otherwise common sense may be blinded. On the subject of intellect over emotion, Avon's 'Brains but no heart' quote from 'Star One' is used in irony. It's for Travis's benefit for goodness' sake. Why would someone perceived as being so cold (heart in this case is used in the 'emotion' sense, rather than as the seat of will power, which Avon did not lack) deliberately send himself up? Avon is obviously proud of the fact that he's read this way, (See also quote 'She is more human than I am' in 'Shadow') and Vila did a lot to promote this. ('There isn't a volcano alive that'd dare to swallow Avon...' Vila in 'Volcano' - there are tons of other examples!) He isn't B7's equivalent of Spock, as some may believe, although he is a very logical, unemotional and honest (as far as avoiding out and out lies, e.g. the end of 'Gambit', and it's all in the wording) person. To this matter, I would question Avon's apparent averse also. I don't believe Avon's statement that the great bank fraud was committed in the attempt to 'undermine confidence in the Federation credit system', any more than I believe it was just for the money. This was made up simply to make it 'respectable', although it was true in the fact that it was a side effect. It's much more likely that Avon committed the crime as a challenge to himself - e.g. to see if he could. (Because it's there?) Again, Avon puts his own intelligence above all other factors - it's the only thing he really believes in. The only problem was, trying to get others to believe in it also, by sharing his 'success' got him caught. Therefore politics had nothing to do with it. Why did no-one trust Avon's competence in 'Headhunter'? Isn't it probable that Avon wanted the android as a 'pet', rather than as a serious weapon? Everyone else drew this conclusion, even though Avon was successful. (In this case, Blake was right about Ensor's flying thing from 'Orac'.) Most of the things that took Avon's interest (this is an understatement!) were technology based, and he would have only used the money to gain more technology. I have never got the impression of Avon as a particularly physical person, this is in my opinion where he gets the reputation of being 'trigger happy'. He isn't a good fighter. Most 'civilised men' aren't. Tarrant never really bought Avon's superiority, but became subordinate due to having to trust Avon's ability to see beyond the here and now, rather than being challenged by his physical ability. Add to this his answer to Jenna over 'could he kill someone face to face.' He had killed before, but in self-defence. Shooting someone isn't a personal experience. I don't think he could rip the throat out of a tiger with his bare hand either - even if he could, (maybe the tiger was sedated) that kind of rush would mean nothing to him. mark Innocence is a fairy tail; intelligence hangs itself on its own rope, the light of logic will show us that all moonstruck magic is dissolute : Life's accomplishments being ephemeral with uncertainty fundamental, devastation overtakes each in thereafter.

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Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show ever mad
by Sally Manton 10 Jun '01

10 Jun '01

After Una suggested: <"The Way Back. The whole of that too.> Dana wrote: <The WHOLE of it? You mean the bits after the first five minutes?> Surely and certainly. We can't do without Alta Morag - my favourite villain in the whole thing, waaaayy more interesting for all her breif appearance than Servalan or *either* Travis (and I like both Travii, really). And: <What I want to know is why you practically never see Blake/Cally - I mean, the one person in the Universe who actually agrees with him is his shipmate!> Hey, Avalon presumably does as well (OTOH, don't see many 'what happened on the way to wherever they were taking Avalon' stories either.) Blake and Cally IMO have (for the most part) a warm, affectionate sibling relationship (the scenes in 'Orac' are lovely examples of this): he treats her like the sister he once had, she shares his dream and for the most part supports him. Very nice for both of them, IMO, but *not* the thing you can lavish angst and passion all over :-) And according to the Powers-That-Be (Bercol, Rontane, Joban, Servie herself) there were a hell of a *lot* of people that would have agreed with Blake if they'd been allowed to ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] H&H: Cally as Waif
by Sally Manton 10 Jun '01

10 Jun '01

Having thought this over while I killed crabgrass this afternoon and - while I don't believe in Avon&Cally - I found it a nice mental exercise to try and come up with a way to justify it. (Please note that not quite all of the following is IM-honest-O. But I do think all of it is canonically acceptable if you see them this way, and has been seen this way by other people :-) There are two (for me) inarguable facts about Avon and Cally's first meeting (Time Squad). This *was* Cally-as-rebel-crusader at her strongest (if somewhat fanatical), and the two of them took one look at each other, and liked what they saw. I don't agree that Cally would have to go all waif or orphan for a relationship to work - in fact, I'd argue the opposite, even taking into account that Avon *might* consciously prefer a relationship with someone 'safe'. It's very easy to argue - on the on-screen evidence - that Avon's 'weakness', emotionally at least, is actually for the crusader type. Of the three people he's closest to in the crew, two of them - Blake and Cally - *are* the True Believers; whether he wants it or not (and he doesn't, I agree) there appears to be an attraction there to people who can believe in and fight for something outside themselves. Furthermore, the argument becomes stronger if you can believe that Anna Grant was genuine in her rebellion, and even possibly had leanings that way earlier*. The main problem is, of course, we have next to no knowledge of exactly what the relationship between Avon and Anna was like, so it's impossible to use his actual love affair to build on; but even if there were no signs that Avon could see, it is a remarkable coincidence that the one True Love of His Life turned into yet another rebel :-) Re waifs, we don't see many, but I don't think he finds them nearly as interesting. He certainly seems to be a little dazzled by Meegat's open worship, but it's all rather innocent - the hand-holding, the gentleness, etc. And could one call Piri a waif type as well? She certainly appeals to *Tarrant's* protective streak, but Avon seems to find her as painful as I do. Veron - a real orphan - gets a brusque "I'm sorry" flung at her before he turns his attention back to Fearless Leader. He is protective towards Dayna - another orphan - but while she may be naive, she's far too Amazonian for waifdom, and the relationship is way too avuncular to base sexual appeal on (that *being* IMO, BTW). So - based on all this theorising <g> - I might suggest that Avon&Cally could have a chance if she stays strong, a crusader, which means give her something to fight for in 3rd series, so she can turn herself around - but it would have to be something *that Avon would be prepared to fight for too* (the simple and definitely IMO fact is she's not Blake, she's not Anna, he's *not* going to go into it just for her personally. But maybe once he's in there ...) And as to what that something could possibly be ... there, my friends, you *have* me ... *I don't, but for the purposes of the argument and based on the fact that I've *seen* it argued ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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H&H: Cally as Waif
by Ellynne G. 10 Jun '01

10 Jun '01

Guess I'm just awnry at heart but I got ahold of the Heroes & Heroines book and started reading through it. Although I agree Cally is mostly a Crusader-Nurturer, I think she shows definite moments of Waifishness. However, since I also agree this is a Bad Thing in the B7 universe, I can't say I'm in favor of it. Unfortunately, once I got to thinking about why I see her as a Waif, I'm not sure what can be done to cure her. So, how does a Crusader-Nurturer become a Waif? In Cally's case, by continually having her identity under attack. By S3, Cally's Crusader identity is largely in remission. She's been fighting the good fight for years now without victory in sight. As a Nurturer, how many planets has she seen depopulated? Just as herself, she always seemed to take pride in her Auron identity - but the Aurons weren't just wiped out, they were wiped out _easily_ and without a fight by their moral and species opposites in the Federation (and partly because of Crusader choices Cally had made that put her on the LIberator). Checking over what the book said, "The WAIF was molded by her sense of isolation" and "The WAIF escaped from one disaster after another." Of the two types, I'd say Cally was becoming the Orphan, "the woman with a painful past, the parent-less child thrown out of her home," just as Cally (whose parents are dead) was exiled from Auron before losing it in a more permanent sense, "or [she is] the tortured outcast from society." Again, Cally has been literally tortured and suffers from the basic lonliness of an isolated telepath. Also, both as a telepath and as an alien, she is a borderline outcaste from most of the human societies the encounter. It also says that "the Orphan defends herself only out of desperation." One of the things I find disturbing about Cally is the lack of self-preservation she has. It's not just that it's lower than Avon thinks anyone's should be, it's that she literally doesn't seem to have one. Granted, part of this is her Nurturer side. She doesn't value her life against someone else's good. But we're not talking about x (her life) being equal to zero in her math. A lot of the time, there isn't any x. It didn't even make it far enough into the equation to be dismissed. Worse, "the Orphan needs a knight in shining armor." I don't think I'm stretching a point to say that knight is unlikely to be Tarrant. Also, Avon has a weakness for Waifs (a la Meegat). To enter into a romantic relationship, he needs to feel _safe_. Nurturers claim to have his best interests at heart. Whether or not he buys that intellectually, he can't accept it emotionally. As for Crusaders, that's another set of motivations Avon doesn't know whether to despise or distrust. He might accept such a person as an ally but, as something more (assuming he put aside his distrust), it's too risky. He'd be constantly risking rejection either as soon as the Crusader got fed up with Avon's anti-Crusader tendencies or risking loss whenever it became a choice between him and the Crusade. Removed from a constantly high risk environment, I think Avon might be able to get over this, but that doesn't seem to likely. In his usual environment, it's not happening. Side thing, I can see part of the appeal Servalan has for him. As far as understanding her motives goes, he's safe. She may have clever plans he hasn't figured out yet, but he he understands her motivations and overall desires pretty well. The problem with this is that I can't seem to come up with a story where Avon is likely to change his interaction with Cally before she has reached a state of near total Waifishness. In other words, when she has been completely beaten and has lost all connection to her Crusader and Nurturer identities. I don't like this. Obviously, I would prefer something that made Avon change. But, since his issue is trust, and since I have already decided he might regain some in a _safer_ environment, it's hard to come up with better story ideas. In other words, suggestions welcome. Oh, and debate. But that's half the point of posting. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Twenty moments
by Sally Manton 10 Jun '01

10 Jun '01

Debbie wrote: <I don't think anybody has mentioned my favourite piece of dialogue between Avon and Vila <My head's killing me <Then learn self defence <Can't remember which episode it was from, but it's one of the classic lines of the series.> Oooh. Ummm. Errr. Sorry and all that, but that's actually Vila and *Tarrant* from Sarcophagus: VILA: My head's killing me. TARRANT: You should learn self-defense. (Had to speak up, since it's my second-favourite line from Tarrant in the whole thing. My favourite being Terminal "What are you going to do if he spots you?" "Duck." It's the perfectly timed pause, and the fact that he's not quite joking.) The Vila and Avon exchange along the same lines was from Redemption: Redemption: VILA: I've got this shocking pain right behind the eyes. AVON: Have you considered amputation? <grin> can't see *what* Steven Pacey means about interchangable lines, meself ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show ever made
by Alison Page 08 Jun '01

08 Jun '01

Harriet and Sally - ><9) Voice from the Past: The politics, you apathetic lot!> > >Who, us? <wide eyed injured look> That's all I watch it for, of course. > >Seriously, I do think the episode is important (if rather less than >brilliantly executed :-)) I know people have their favourites but I've never really been completely satisfied with any representation of power-politics in TV or film. Like sport, politics seems to be hard to capture. Perhaps because 'liveness' is so important. I'm trying to think of any example, from B7 or otherwise, which even begins to capture the excitement of real politics unfolding and I can't. (for non-brits, I'm watching real politics unfold on TV at present) Alison

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New Cartoons and Fanzines
by Ashton7＠aol.com 08 Jun '01

08 Jun '01

I've finally managed to get a few of our websites updated since our return from MediaWest Con. The main site has all of the "news" as well as a new Stargate cartoon and two classic Blakes 7 cartoons posted. There are two new all Highlander fanzines in print as of a couple of weeks ago. Also, many of our older fanzines, like the Western ones, are now available in reprints for the first time in years. Full details, including the usual art and text excerpts, can be found at our website. Everything is linked from the main page, so check it out! I'm taking submissions now for several upcoming fanzines and, baring any further medical crises in my life (goddess forbid!), they will be going into print as quickly as they fill up with stories! So, if you're interested in submitting material for Highlander, Stargate or Blakes 7, drop me an email. Ashton Press: http://members.aol.com/ashton7/ashton.htm Annie

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Blakes7 June 2001