Blakes7 June 2001

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61 participants
258 discussions

Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Marian de Haan 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Judith Proctor wrote re Robert Holmes: >But I like his ability to write well-rounded guest characters< The other B7 writers were equally capable of that, with the possible exception of Roger Parkes and James/Jim Follett. Even Ben Steed managed it quite well. :-) >and don't mind a few of the regulars taking a back seat on occasion (you can't have all the characters and the guest characters having major parts - just isn't possible in the time available).< True, but in "Traitor" Holmes manages to relegate *all* the regulars to the back seat. I agree with Sally that he doesn't seem to be interested in them. >Bellfriar and Gambril were a delight with their good-natured banter and light cynicism. (Egrorian was totally unbelieveable, but I enjoyed Krantor and Toise).< Holmes excels in creating and writing for likable male rogues and anarchists, hence his good Avon-Vila dialogue. Marian

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Other script editors [was Robert Holmes]
by Ellynne G. 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:52:53 +0100 (BST) =?iso-8859-1?q?Stephen=20Date?= <stephend999(a)yahoo.co.uk> writes: > --- Sally wrote: > > > Other Script Editors: > > Terry Nation: Would have kept Blake as a much less > ambiguous hero. The Andromedans would have travelled > around in shiny pepperpots (Mark 3 travel machines) > and said "exterminate" a lot. Hey, how about the Federation guards in black masks saying that? It would have given them a lot more dialogue. [snip] > Tanith Lee: Much more sexual tension among the > Liberator crew. Mystical villain(ess) of the week > would have taken over from the mad scientists. And perhaps more of a resolution to the Avon and Cally issue . . . ? I think I could have liked that. Others: Tim Burton: A lot more opportunities for characters to wear black (except the villains, who might have felt more drawn to pastels). Would have been . . . interesting to see what he would have done with Lee's scripts (good or bad I'm still deciding). Whoever did Ladyhawke: Watch Vila become the hero. _Much_ longer final fight scene between Travis and Blake. Not sure if Avon is the knight, the monk, or the evil bishop. Rod Serling: The Andromedan invasion was fake. It is revealed at the end of Blake that they're killing off everyone by inspiring paranoia. Hitchcock: Whoa. Talk about a match made in heaven. This would _really_ have made Orbit worth watching. Egrorian would no longer have been camp, ditto Pindar. As for Avon trying to kill Vila . . . oh, my. Shakespeare: Get rid of Hitchcock. Let's see. We have to steal heavily from Winter's Tale. GP is partway through the series (with Avon's Bard writing for him, a few extra years are guaranteed). For those unfamiliar with it, Winter's Tale's first half ends with a feeling of gloom like Othello or Lear. The next half is when things turn around (and the bad guy whose intense distrust got everyone killed is one of the turn arounds). Even the tragically dead get better. And it's CONVINCING!!! Whoever did Wizard of Oz: Bad news - very short Federation guards singing in squeeky voices ("Follow the Liberator, follow the Liberator. Follow, follow, follow, follow the Liberator"). I do not even want to contemplate Avon singing "If I only had a brain" or the Scarecrow's wardrobe (OTOH, Tarrant singing about his lack of courage has a certain appeal, and Dayna could be Toto [the only character who gets to attack the witch _on purpose_]). Good news - someone drops a house on Servalan. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Other script editors [was Robert Holmes]
by J MacQueen 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

>From: "Ellynne G." <rilliara(a)juno.com> >Whoever did Wizard of Oz: Bad news - very short Federation guards >singing in squeeky voices ("Follow the Liberator, follow the Liberator. >Follow, follow, follow, follow the Liberator"). And, of course, the immortal sound of the above singing "We represent the Federation troops, the Federation troops, the Federation troops, And in the name of the Federation troops, we welcome you to Cygnus Alpha". They would present arms (but not to our heroes), rather than lollipops. Um. >I do not even want to >contemplate Avon singing "If I only had a brain" That would be Ultraworld, wouldn't it? <grin> >Good news - someone drops a house on Servalan. Would that make Travis I the other bad witch? Can't you just him saying something along the lines of "I'll get you, my pretties"? (Do I hear a resounding No?) It's imagining Blake in the magic red sequinned boots, clicking his heels together (there is no place like home, I'll second that at this time of the week) that tells me it's almost time for me to head for the nearest train station for the journey north, I think. Have a good weekend, whenever yours starts Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Sally Manton 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Stephen wrote: <I don't know. His stint at Dr Who was IMO the best in the programmes history. On the other hand I don't know if the Gothic feel he gave the programme would have translated well across to Blake's 7.> <grin> I agree that he was wonderful with Dr Who, I *was* musing just about his possible role on Blakes 7 only. And it wasn't meant as criticism of him as a writer, since IMO he's one of the best they had. [Something I forgot to mention in the other post was that he was good at memorable settings (Fosferon, Freedom City, Helotrix) as well as his good guest characters.] <I always think that Killer is a Dr Who script that got put in the wrong in tray. Curly haired Bloke with all the answers swans into a futuristic environment menaced by human corpses animated by sinister alien invaders.> And we then have enormous fun trying to work out a sensible reason *why* Blake has the answers (something that is never a problem with the Doctor) and why Jenna [a] doesn't know squat about ancient spacecraft and [b] sits and demurely listens to his lecture mode (me, I think she just loves the sound of his voice, she did the same in SLD, which Holmes didn't write). <I put the fact that Jenna becomes exposition fodder, losing her status as an expert on Space Flight, is because Holmes confused her with Sarah Jenna, er Jane, Smith.> <grin> Sarah Jane on the Liberator is a fun idea ... <I think that Holmes was interested in the Duel of the memorable grotesques - I think he always managed to write Servalan well, which contrasts with his treatment of the female regulars.> Have to disagree - oh, she's better than the rest of the females, but I find her too much the Macchiavellian Pantomime Dame, *especially* in Gambit. Entertaining, but a looong way from the original, elegantly monstrous creature in S1. <In the alternate universe where Holmes took the job I don't think we'd have got anything as good as the ending to season 2. No Star One, no Jenna betraying Blake, no Avon agreeing to hold off the bad guys until the bad guys arrive, no speeches about wading in blood.> <whimper> and no resonance, since IMO he would make damn sure Blake and Avon exchanged no more than 100 words in the whole two years. Ergo, no 'Terminal' and no 'Blake' as we know them. <Tarrant and Dayna are, if not ciphers, almost incidental to the plot.> Agreed. <If Holmes had been allowed to create the show from scratch I think we'd have got something brilliant - not B7 but brilliant nonetheless.> True. If it had been his show. But were he stuck with Terry Nations characters, whom I rather like meself ... <If Holmes had taken over in the way Boucher did in S2 we'd have got Avon and Vila pulling of scams and getting into scrapes which is fun but not the same.> And is what fanfic is for :-) <It's a shame that Holmes didn't contribute in S3 as the nature of that season would have allowed for the sort of thing he liked to add in a way that S2 didn't.> Actually, you're right, that would have given S3 an enormous kick. Loved your Other Script Editors, BTW ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Sally Manton 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

James (Hi!) proceeded to make hay of my musings by pointing out the episode I'd overlooked in Traitor (Damn, damn, damn - I *knew* I'd go wrong somewhere - but for some reason I always mentally assign that one to someone else :-) Probably because, although it's quite a good episode, I hate the return-of-Servalan and Pylene threads it starts.) However, it doesn't *entirely* demolish the argument for me, since, while Tarrant and Dayna are the ones down and unsafe (as Jenna and Cally are in Gambit), they're really only moving the storyline along (as *do* Cally and Jenna in Gambit). Again the interesting scenes and writing - the good stuff - does go to the guest characters. He did wonderful guests, as I said (many of my favourites), but I don't think Traitor shows any more interest in the *series* characters. I wouldn't say of Tarrant and Dayna that it is one of their better character episodes (whereas the other three are pivotal Avon-Vila). I accept the 'it is harsh to judge him' especially since - as I said - I like Gambit and *adore* Killer; the thing is, he is one of their best writers (and yes, I agree his writing on Dr Who was wonderful, showing a far greater interest in the series characters) but one does look for a higher standard from the better writers (Tanith Lee being another one) than from, say, James Follett. The point of my musings wasn't to damn his individual episodes, but to look at what common elements in his scripts might have bled over in the role of script editor on this particular series. Maybe part of the reason he turned the job down was because he was unable to muster much interest in the characters Terry Nation invented. And the bit about exposition still holds, IMO - the Pylene thread involves a lot of 'character A telling character B' etc <g> To give all due, as I said, he's rather good at making bald exposition entertaining ... <It's inevitable that in a series like Blake's 7 there are going to be episodes in which one or two characters are concentrated on, with the others sidelined, just as there are episodes which are ensemble pieces.> Oh, agreed. But his *are* all ensemble pieces :-) it's just he puts together an ensemble of his very own. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Marian de Haan 29 Jun '01

29 Jun '01

Stephen Date wrote: >I always think that Killer is a Dr Who script that got put in the wrong in tray. Curly haired Bloke with all the answers swans into a futuristic environment menaced by human corpses animated by sinister alien invaders.< That would explain Blake knowing more about viruses than Bellfriar, reputedly the greatest living authority on them :-) (I always found that extremely silly.) >I think that Holmes was interested in the Duel of the memorable grotesques< He can write excellent scenes between two characters but his dialogue suffers as soon as the action calls for more. >I like Egrorian and Pindar.< I hate them. Egrorian's OTT performance prevents me from taking Orbit episode serious. >Ah you have neglected Tarrant and Dayna in Traitor. But come to think of it Traitor is the story of Space Major Hunda and his gallant band of rebels fighting a doomed struggle against Servalan and a one eyed baddie. Tarrant and Dayna are, if not ciphers, almost incidental to the plot.< Exactly. The focus is on the guest characters. One of the things I dislike about Holmes's B7 plots is that he seems to give more attention to the guest characters than to the regulars. >Ben Steed: Wake up and smell the testosterone, Dayna would have been the only woman to do anything in 52 episodes.< But not once would she have been allowed to win from a man :-) >Jarvik would have been the new Travis.< <shudder> >Roger Parkes: Blake's 7 fans would not mention the dialogue as one of the high points of the show.< Nor the plots. Marian

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Paul Darrow
by Judith Proctor 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

The following is courtesy of Alan Stevens: Paul Darrow, Peter Tuddenham, Peter Miles, and Patricia Merrick will be attending a signing session to promote the Kaldor City CDs on 1st September from 12.00 - 4pm at 10th Planet, unit 36, Vicarage Field Shopping Centre, Ripple Rd, Barking, Essex, 1G11 8DQ The shop's phone number is 020 8591 5357 The first CD is over half way through editing process and expected to be available in around a month's time. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '03 21-23 Feb 2003 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by James Mansson ARGO 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

Regarding Sally's musing on Robert Holmes... I think it is harsh to judge him on how he wrote for the various characters as he wrote so few episodes for this series (two in Series Two, two in Series Four). It's inevitable that in a series like Blake's 7 there are going to be episodes in which one or two characters are concentrated on, with the others sidelined, just as there are episodes which are ensemble pieces. The responsibility for making sure that each character gets his/her fair share of the action must surely rest with the script editor (and RH was only a writer on B7). Actually in his Series Four episodes, he does quite a good job on sharing out the action; in Traitor, Tarrant/Dayna are in the spotlight, while in Orbit it is Avon/Vila. Only Soolin gets neglected, presumably because she was something of an afterthought (didn't they originally want to retain Cally, but Jan C didn't want to continue?) and there wasn't much for RH to go on with her. Best wishes, James

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Rescue script on Ebay
by JEB31538＠cs.com 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

The first typed draft of "Rescue" is on Ebay now and is number 1160497847. It contains markings by both Vere Lorrimer and Chris Boucher. It can be autographed by Boucher if wished. Joyce

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Early JP
by Dana Shilling 28 Jun '01

28 Jun '01

These quotes come from Jonathan Rigby's "English Gothic: A Century of Horror Cinema" (Reynolds & Hearn 2000), about two Hammer films from 1965, The Plague of the Zombies and The Reptile. "Fresh from RADA, Jacqueline Pearce certainly gives a disturbing sexual charge to Alice's green-faced resuscitation. Her sudden awakening is brilliantly hanlded in the best heart-stopping Hammer tardition and her decapitation by Sir James is preceded by a camera-hogging close-up of her leering approach. If Pearce's account of the living Alice is one of the most delicate performances in any Hammer film, then her account of the undead Alice is one of the most terrifying, offering a fusion of sex and death as disquieting as anything even Barbara Steele came up with." The page has a large photograph captioned "Jacqueline Pearce relaxes during The Plague of the Zombies." She has long hair (!) and is reclining in a coffin, in an open grave, wearing a long white dress, grinning and holding a cigarette in one hand. "Jacqueline Pearce, in another splendidly intense per- formance, transcends the make-up by investing the Reptile with an aptly sinuous grace, encased in a black gown of watered silk and with a pony tail slithering incongruously down her back." -(Y)

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Blakes7 June 2001