Blakes7 July 2001

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55 participants
273 discussions

Re: [B7L] Avon & Byron
by Natasa Tucev 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Sally wrote: <Interesting that he shows absolutely *no* interest in the more conventionally-pretty Jenna (that dour "not wasting your time on frivolities is gorgeous> I can't believe it never occured to me before: she's actually flirting with him in this scene! First she appears in that outfit, and then *she* directs him to the treasure room - knowing what his reaction would be. Why would she do that? Why didn't she keep silent about the room until Blake was out of danger? Unless, of course, she was also quite tempted by the gems and half-considered dumping Blake as well? Perhaps Avon just articulated what they both had in mind? (And then she articulated refusal to desert Blake - which they also both had in mind). <for anyone who's listening the right way, actions don't just speak louder than words with our Avon, they yell at the top of their figurative voices (which is of course one of the joyous things about watching and listening him).> I don't have any comments to this sentence, I'm just quoting it because it's so nicely phrased. <And the whole thing with Servalan (though I'm always amused by the fact that they appear to have been *totally* blind to each other's sex appeal right up until the minute Blake and Travis aren't there to distract their attention).> I guess with Servalan sex appeal is closely related to the appeal of power, so she started noticing Avon when he became the "owner" of that big ship, and "seduce Avon" became synonymous with "get the Liberator". <I'm inclined to think any story about an 'outlaw band' is liable to pick up echoes of the Robin Hood story, because of the latter's influence on culture for hundreds of years - it'd be bloody hard work keeping it *out*. What we have is Robin and his Dirty Half-Dozen> Let us not forget Denis Moore, Denis Moore, riding through the night, he has with him, hmhmhm... Actually I'd say there's a 'noble outlaw' type featuring in the folklore of many nations, someone persecuted and outnumbered by the forces of law and order but really fighting for justice in his own unorthodox way. Folk songs are full of such. John Wesley Harding was a friend to the poor, he travelled with a gun in every hand...etc. In my country we have volumes of folk poems glorifying highwaymen who robbed rich Turks during their 500 year long occupation (I'm not so sure they gave to the poor, though). <Then there's Vila, and his alter-ego as the Court Jester (both on the Liberator and on Goth) - the jokes, the magic tricks, and *his* S1 costume all patches and bright colours ... like Avon/Byron and Blake/Robin, there isn't *too* much of it, but it's fun to play with (and probably does have an influence on the 'Wise Fool' aspect of some Vila-ish fanfic).> He that has and a little tiny wit, With heigh-ho, the wind and the rain, Must make content with his fortunes fit, Though the rain it raineth every day. (Sorry, couldn't help quoting.) N.

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Byronic Avon
by Alison Page 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

Sally said - >>Interesting that he shows absolutely *no* interest in the more conventionally-pretty Jenna I think he has a go at seducing Jenna in orbit around Cygnus Alpha ('Let's ditch the loser and you and me go explore the galaxy, baby.') but she rebuffs him. From then on, he is understandably a little frosty. Vila makes precisely the same suggestion ('Jenna. Let's run for it') in orbit around Star One, and gets a similar, though less scornful, reply. FWIW I think she's a bit tempted. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] Re: building styles
by J MacQueen 11 Jul '01

11 Jul '01

>From: Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> > > What would 'middle maniac' and 'late maniac look like? >More exclamation points. So post-maniac throws in some other punctuation? I suspect late maniac is what Travis' residence looked like after Star One... Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: names
by Sally Manton 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Joanne: <Not that "Early Maniac" is one of the three Classical Orders likely to rate a mention from a Mason...> and Jacqui: <What would 'middle maniac' and 'late maniac look like?> Possibly a '1050s-view-of-futuristic' Stalinist wedding-cake. And as a space station yet. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Avon & Byron
by Natasa Tucev 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Sally wrote: >I have to doubt that Avon's Byronic aura would be nearly as noticable were >it not for mid-to-late S3 - the start of Children of Auron, and all of >Rumours of Death and Sarcophagus are the most Tortured-Hero episodes (am >still trying to decide about Terminal). Still, I'd say he displays some Byronic traits even earlier. He has a weekness for beautiful women (Cally in Web), he's "capable of deep and strong affection" (to quote Macaulay) although obviously not capable of communicating it (the famous "you don't have to become irrational to prove that you care" speech in Duel), women find him beautiful and are attracted to him (Meegat in Deliverance and Dayna at the very beginning of S3). Also, Avon's strong individualism, a kind of "non serviam" attitude which we associate with Byron's characters, is present from the very start (Blake in Space Fall, "it will work IF ONLY I CAN GET HIM TO DO IT"). Besides, the development re Anna Grant (hero feeling responsible for the death of his darling summons her ghost from the dead - a motif from "Manfred", IIRC) starts as early as Countdown. >It's interesting, however, that neither the writers (Nation or Boucher) nor >PD seem to have had any intention of investing him with *any* Byronic or >Wromantic overtones It goes without saying, I think, that we can rightfully claim to have found in a work of art more than the artist(s) consciously intended to put there. I'm refering to a sort of cultural "collective unconscious" working on various levels. For instance, Terry Nation acknowledged the influence of Dirty Dozen, but I'm sure the legends of Robin Hood also played a part in creating B7, and it's not difficult to prove. Avon may have been intended as a mixture of Mr. Spock and Dirty Harry, but I believe Byron also crept in from somewhere in the back of the authors' mind... Hey, Sally, thank you for turning this into a serious thread! N.

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Re: building styles
by Helen Krummenacker 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

> Not > > > that "Early Maniac" is one of the three Classical Orders likely to rate a > > > mention from a Mason... > > > > New reality show: "This Old Dome" with Bob Vila Restal? > > > > -(Y) > > > > What would 'middle maniac' and 'late maniac look like? > More exclamation points. > >

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Avon & Byron
by Natasa Tucev 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

I'm grappling with Child Harold these days and so it occured to me that Avon is in a way akin to Byron's heroes. Pale, attractive to women, high-born(possibly), educated, world-weary, cynical, and as a rule there's a hint that behind this mask of disinterest and cold disdain some secret past woe is deeply buried... Here are some lines to support my theory: Nay, smile not at my sullen brow, Alas! I cannot smile again; Yet heaven avert that ever thou Shouldst weep, and haply weep in vain. And dost thou ask, what secret woe I bear, coroding joy and youth? And wilt thou vainly seek to know A pang, ev'n thou must fail to soothe? Through many a clime 'tis mine to go. With many a retrospection curst; And all my solace is to know, Whate'er betides, I've known the worst. What is the worst? Nay do not ask- In pity from the search forbear; Smile on - nor venture to unmask Man's heart, and view the Hell that's there. N.

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Avon & Byron
by Sally Manton 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Natasa wrote: <I'm grappling with Child Harold these days and so it occured to me that Avon is in a way akin to Byron's heroes. Pale, attractive to women, high-born(possibly), educated, world-weary, cynical, and as a rule there's a hint that behind this mask of disinterest and cold disdain some secret past woe is deeply buried...> I have to doubt that Avon's Byronic aura would be nearly as noticable were it not for mid-to-late S3 - the start of Children of Auron, and all of Rumours of Death and Sarcophagus are the most Tortured-Hero episodes (am still trying to decide about Terminal). In S1-2, he's got more varied shading of light and dark, and there's the streak of pure brattishness (not normally a trait of the species :-)), and in S4 it gets *too* harsh and a bit skewed (mind you, *that* scene in Power is pure old-fashioned-bodice-ripper IMO :-)). Would this be one of the things that attracts Avon-lovers (well, apart from me) to S3? It's interesting, however, that neither the writers (Nation or Boucher) nor PD seem to have had any intention of investing him with *any* Byronic or Wromantic overtones (maybe Tanith Lee did, of course). In some ways Avon puts me in mind of a pushme-pullyou from Dr Doolittle - there's writers pushing him on one direction - the cold computer genius/'psychopath' (CB's word, not mine!), Darrow pulling him in another (Dirty Harry, not that I can see it) and the fans standing to each side poking and pulling in all different ways. And again, it makes for a much richer, more interesting character; had PD seen him and *played* him as Byronic Doomed Hero, I can't help feeling it wouldn't have worked nearly so well. JMO. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Avon & Byron
by Andrew Williams 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

Natasa wrote: >it occured to me that Avon is in a way akin to Byron's heroes. I'm always reminded of Ozymandias by Shelley: "...whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command"

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Re: [B7L] Re: names
by J MacQueen 10 Jul '01

10 Jul '01

>From: "Dana Shilling" <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> >New reality show: "This Old Dome" with Bob Vila Restal? "This Old Dome"? Sorry, Dana, never mind the host suggestion, because you've just brought up the image of Shakin' Stevens singing "Ain't gunna need this dome no longer, ain't gunna need this dome no more, ain't got time to find the tunnels that they built beneath the floor, ain't got time for exit visas or a ship to fly away, ain't-a gunna need this dome no longer, I'm-a gettin' ready for a prison stay." Yes, well, it is still before 9am. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 July 2001