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Gotten completely away from 'decentring morality'
by Sally Manton 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Dana wrote: <Not to mention that in U.S. law, a statement of OPINION generally will not be considered libelous. Oh, and I think we can assume that Blake is a public figure, so additional latitude is given before negative statements will be considered defamatory.> Which makes one wonder what Federation laws were like ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Natasa Tucev 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Carol wrote: It's an attempt to understand what Chris Boucher intended when he >wrote the script. And specifically, why he mentioned an eyepatch just like >Travis' in the script notes. I think Boucher intended Blake's eye injury as a kind of 'metaphorical' punishment for his actions in Star One. This was where Blake lost his humane vision, as he was willing to sacrifice a great number of lives to attain his goal. Speaking of arcs, I usually see one starting in 'The Way Back', where the camera focuses on Blake's eye while Bran Foster tells him about his past. It continues in 'Duel' where a spell makes him blind and he 'dies' because of it. Then comes 'Star One', where the Andromedans ask him what happened to his eye patch; and then 'Blake'. Blake's 'shadow', Travis, is driven by the 'eye for an eye' principle. Boucher also saw that streak in Blake and demonstrated its destructiveness. Which is why I maintain Boucher is a Federation spy. N.

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decentring morality
by Sally Manton 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Again from Natasa's very good post: <Blake's friends in the Freedom Party were massacred because of a traitor; Bran Foster's people were massacred because of a traitor; so were Avalon's people. Blake may have witnessed even more betrayals and gory scenes in the span of time between Star One and GP.> "In trust I have found treason" ... might be the motto for the entire series. Trust (whether given or withheld, whether a good thing or a dangerous risk) and treason are an important part of the overriding themes of the series, whether deliberately planned or not. With Avon, it's a core part of his storyline and character; with Anna of course, with Tynus and Keillor, with Vila (in reverse - Orbit is Avon betraying him). With Jenna there's the *mistrust* thread to their relationship, something that I do think is lightly touched on with Soolin as well (Warlord and her snarl at him in 'Blake') though with them trust may have come had they a few more millenia to work through. With Servalan, who he mistrusts totally (oddly enough, except when she tells him Blake is dead). With his quite overt need to prevent people trusting *him*. With Blake, the ability to trust and to give that trust even when it looks like a bad idea (as with Avon and Vila, Jenna in Bounty etc) is a central part of his characters, *and* an indicator of how badly he's been damaged in Blake. With the entire crew, there's the constant and wearing risk of giving even limited trust - to each other (Terminal/Rescue are especially good examples of this) or to outsiders - running alongside the desperate need, in this universe - to be *able* to trust *someone*. And on the Other Side, of course - betrayal and lack of trust is a constant theme in the Federation scenes. Servalan's betrayal of Travis, and his subsequent attempt to betray the whole human race; her deadly dance with the President, which ends when she betrays and deposes him; her inability to find close, trustworthy intimates (witnessed by the constant changing on her staff, her bitter "he's so much better than anyone I've got left"; her poisonous exchange with Joban, who supported her and uses that support to threaten her; the two coups against her; the fact that the only people we hear *were* loyal to her were outside her court (Traitor) and her total lack of loyalty to anyone except herself. And then of course, there's Avon and Blake themselves; the issue of trust and belief, unwilling, probably illogical but undeniable, is an integral part of their storyline, to a point where its importance - and the unthinkable and at the same time *un*-unthinkable dangers of betrayal - leads both to that wonderful last scene in Star One *and* that dreadful last scene in Blake ... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Fwd: RE: Re: Re: Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Sally Manton 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Me: <Does the Fifth Amendment cover when we can hear you *thinking* it at the top of your mental voice? :-)> Dana: <Military law has always drawn a distinction between "mutiny" and "dumb insolence"> and Jacqui: <And what about Orac's remark to Dorian that a statement of fact cannot be insolent?> <grin> I can make a good guess to what Dana was thinking about my beloved Fearless Leader and it'll be a cold day down below when I admit *that* as fact ... (OTOH, knowing Dana, it'll still be entertainingly stated :-)) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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RE: Fwd: [B7L] Re: Avon and Gan (was Dinosaurs)
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

"Sally Manton" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >Helen wrote: ><Wouldn't it have been something if Gan had made it to third season, and >Anna was also his woman?> > >Wildly unlikely coincidence being after all an integral tool of fiction ... > >I still think they should've made Del and Dev Tarrant relatives. > Avon's comment in Aftermath about meeting Servalan being the most improbable event he would expect, so it happened (I am paraphrasing I know) Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Counting the Relatives (was: Avon and Gan)
by Sally Manton 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Dana wrote; <And Sally said Dev and Del Tarrant should have been relatives. Aren't they? I assume the former is the uncle of the latter.> Well, I've read quite a few stories that made the connection (it's a good source of angst, of course :-)) and can't help thinking that - had they been related - 'twould have been interesting to see if Avon and Cally wanted to use it to get at Dev (Avon as a dry run for the Shrinker plan, Cally because she might see more moral ground for getting rid of someone who'd betrayed at least one, possibly more, dissident groups). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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decentring morality
by Sally Manton 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Natasa writes: <No, I don't think it makes him fanatical. Blake's friends in the Freedom Party were massacred because of a traitor; Bran Foster's people were massacred because of a traitor; so were Avalon's people. Blake may have witnessed even more betrayals and gory scenes in the span of time between Star One and GP. He is forming a new group now and as usual, he takes the whole burden of responsibility for it.> CALLY: My people have a saying, a man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken. AVON: Life expectancy must be fairly short among your people. Bearing in mind two other facts: [a] computers in the B7 world are no more infallible (or trustworthy for that matter) than anyone else :-) - after all, Deva's systems passed Arlen, didn't they? When setting up her infiltration, her people would surely have done some work on setting up a backstory that would pass muster (Actually, given Tarrant's *public* back-history - FSA high-flyer/deserter/mercenary - are we so sure Deva passed *him*? Maybe he didn't, and that's part of why he's so mad at Blake for wanting to take the risk with the boy); and [b] look at his group on the Liberator. Would any 'system' have passed Avon, Vila or Gan? - he's got reason to want a personal, human involvement. <He's the leader; if anything should happen to these people it would be his fault. Blake's guilt complex is a trait well established in the series.> Agreed; Trial does indicate fairly strongly that it can run out of control, as part of his incorrigible head-over-heart streak. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by Mac4781＠aol.com 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

Dana and Jacqui (at least that's what I think; correct me if I'm wrong) wrote: > >It could also be a class thing--Alphas are commissioned officers as soon as > >they finish basic training? > > Consider what KAsabi says about Servalan getting into the military high > command because of her connections But if one had those kinds of connections, would one end up on a dangerous infiltration mission on Gauda Prime? Or would one have a cushy staff position at Space Command? Also, Arlen didn't strike me as "elite Alpha." She appeared to be a scrapper, someone who used her wits and tenacity to get to where she was. If anything, I'd picture her as a lower grade who beat the odds to become an officer. Carol

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RE: Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

"Dana Shilling" <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote: > >Wildean asked: >> > Incidentally does BCU stand for Big Close Up? >It could be a typo for ECU (Extreme Close Up). If >it was later on it might stand for Blake Care Unit, >getting ready for PGPs. > >Carol said: >> Later we learn this *teen* [Arlen] is a Federation *officer*. Which goes >along with >> my theory that military officers were put through an accelerated learning >> process that had them graduating from FSA before students in our era would >> have begun university > >It could also be a class thing--Alphas are commissioned officers as soon as >they finish basic training? > >-(Y) Consider what KAsabi says about Servalan getting into the military high command because of her connections Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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RE: Re: Re: Re: [B7L] decentring morality
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 30 Sep '01

30 Sep '01

"Dana Shilling" <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> wrote: >Sally asked: >> >> Does the Fifth Amendment cover when we can hear you *thinking* it at the >top >> of your mental voice? :-) > >Military law has always drawn a distinction between >"mutiny" and "dumb insolence" > >-(Y) And what about Orac's remark to Dorian that a statement of fact cannot be insolent? Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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