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5511 discussions

Chenga
by Sally Manton 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

Ellynne wrote: <After Liberator rescued Vila and Cally from Chenga, has anyone ever wondered what happened next? I've always wondered if, after they were revived and the situation was explained, if the crew took any further steps. They could have tipped off planets with a free press about what the Chengans did with war refugees.> <grin> one has to wonder if they would have expected anyone to believe a message from the Liberator - possibly. For a mob of largely crooked-to-the-bone career criminals (and even now, they swapped a smuggler for a smuggler/mercenary, and one who's soon to show a taste for piracy), they seem to have developed a reputation for integrity that Avon probably finds alternately mystifying and amusing. <That's assuming they didn't take some kind of more direct action to stop it> But could they? I don't recall if there's any evidence in the series that the Liberator actually could destroy targets on a planetary surface, which - unless I'm wrong* - means they'd have to go down and do it the hard way. After Star One, I think Avon, Vila and yes even Cally, might be a bit too battle-fatigued to be willing to face that. *Stop sniggering - I'll admit it's happened once or twice - last millenium, maybe. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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World Trade Centre
by Helen Atkins 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

I received this today. I think it makes interesting reading. ........................................................................ An Afghan-American speaks >You can't bomb us back into the Stone Age. We're already there. But you can >start a new world war, and that's exactly what Osama bin Laden wants. > >- - - - - - - - - - - - >By Tamim Ansary > >Sept. 14, 2001: I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens, on San Francisco's KGO Talk Radio, >conceded >today that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral >damage. What else >can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." > >And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived in the United States for 35 >years I've never >lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. > >I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New >York. I agree >that something must be done about those monsters. > >But the Taliban and bin Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who >took over >Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think bin Laden, think Hitler. And >when you think "the >people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They >were the first victims >of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats' nest of international thugs holed >up in their country. > >Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few >years ago, the >United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan -- a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. >And the Taliban >has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few > of the reasons >why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. > >We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the >Afghans >suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy >their infrastructure? >Cut them off from medicine and healthcare? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they >at least get >the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the >bombs would >get some of those disabled orphans; they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't >really be a strike >against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban -- by raping once again the people >they've been >raping all this time. > >So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with >ground troops. >When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having >the belly to >overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And >not just because >some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that, folks. Because to get any troops >to Afghanistan, >we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand > by? You see >where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. > >And guess what: That's bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right >there. He really >believes Islam would beat the West. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion >soldiers. If the West >wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose; that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably > wrong -- in the end >the West would win, whatever that would mean -- but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. > >Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Domes and religion
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 19 Sep '01

19 Sep '01

Religion and the domes Going back to an earlier discussion. Perhaps the destruction of the churches - on Earth at least - is 'in some way' connected with the move into domes. Buildings for religious uses usually take up a lot of space relative to their actual usage, and space might well be at a premium in the domes - so 'faith'/religious belief might exist in the private rather than the public domain. Also - if leaving the domes was a 'Category Four' offence, and the outsiders were to be shunned, how come Servalan as President had a mansion outside in 'Rumours'? The way Chesku, Sula/Anna and the two guards treat the set up suggests that this was not an unusual phenomenon. Perhaps it was 'one rule for the masses shoved into domes, another rule (or none) for those rich enough to afford it.' Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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World Trade Center
by Ellynne G. 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

It seems like I can't turn to other subjects without trying to say something about this, but words are inadequate. Perhaps the words haven't been invented. A woman who survived the holocaust once wrote that there is a language that no one knows, no one except those who survived the camps. We have all survived this past week, yet where are the words to describe it? Evil is the only one that seems adequate. I know we've been discussing past evils and possible future ones and, perhaps, someday I will find something else I can say. But, right now, this is it. That, and I keep praying for God's mercy on us all. That doesn't seem adequate to what I wish I knew how to say either, but it will have to do. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: Subject: [B7L] Second in command
by Ellynne G. 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

I can see why Jenna might have faded out from her earlier, more prominent position as the others began to learn what she had to teach them and after having to face the reasons why they were so quick to believe she _would_ sell them out - but why did they turn to Avon? His first shot at command nearly killed everyone. Or have we misjudged Meegat all these years? Maybe worshipping Avon was a side effect of the radiation and even mild doses could be incurable? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Chenga
by Ellynne G. 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

After Liberator rescued Vila and Cally from Chenga, has anyone ever wondered what happened next? I've always wondered if, after they were revived and the situation was explained, if the crew took any further steps. They could have tipped off planets with a free press about what the Chengans did with war refugees. That's assuming they didn't take some kind of more direct action to stop it (Avon doesn't like people almost killing his associates, Tarrant has his sense of honor, Vila doesn't like almost being killed, and Cally has an aversion to the mass slaughter of innocents). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Wobblevision
by Steve Rogerson 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

Two new Wobblevisions are up on Lou and Simon's site - Deathwatch and Warlord, the latter done at Nexus earlier this year. http://www.blakes-7.co.uk/wobblevision -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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CDs and terrorism
by Judith Proctor 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

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Re: [B7L] defective How Green Was My Valley tape sets
by Sally Manton 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

I got mine through Choices, when you sent the original information (thank you thank you) and it's fine :-) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Meegat and Dayna
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 18 Sep '01

18 Sep '01

When Avon was rescued on Sarran would he have thought he was in another 'Deliverance' scenario - being rescued by a person who finds him attractive etc ?) (How 'long ago' did the events on Meegat's planet occur - the way Ensor junior speaks it appears to have been within 'living memory' of first contact with the Federation or its predecessors)? Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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