Blakes7

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

5511 discussions

Chucking episodes (was: Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings)
by Marian de Haan 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Sally: >I like to believe that Power was Vila's bad dream.< I like to consider Orbit as Vila's bad dream :-) Mistral: >It's a good thing I don't believe in chucking episodes, I guess.< Nor do I. Canon is canon and we're stuck with the good as well as the bad. And isn't it fun that we all think differently about which episodes are bad? Marian

1 0

Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Sally Manton 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

Mistral wrote: < I find the Tynus-Avon-Vila interaction in Killer to be crucial to my concept of Avon and also A-V.> Agreed, but would you also include the other two? Killer, Gambit and Orbit are central IMO to defining the relationship between Avon and Vila, bit the good and the not-at-all-good (other episodes have good A-V in them - Volcano, Deliverance, City and Bounty, for starters - but aren't *built* around it). <I wish Holmes had written more episodes,> And maybe used some of those earlier guests in them (if they could bring back Bercol and Rontane, they could bring back Krantor and Toise, impoverished and itinerant after the post-War near-collapse of the Federation destroyed Freedom City's whole clientele :-)) <Seriously. Why do I watch Killer more than Shadow, when I *know* Shadow is the better ep, and love it, too? Unless it's the A-V in Killer, and the rotten Cally hallucination sequences in Shadow.> Could be it. I *do* watch Shadow - lots - but then it's an A-B episode in its way, so it comes into my main area of interest (which is why my tapes of Time Squad, The Web, Breakdown, Redemption, Pressure Point, Hostage, Countdown, Voice from the Past, Star One, Terminal and Blake are getting plenty of use whether they are as good as Shadow or definitely *not* :-). Also, I'm a sucker for Our Heroes Behaving Appallingly, which is one reason why I also love Horizon and Assassin. Then again <veg> could it be the costumes? You have to admit, they all look *gorgeous* in Shadow, but that has nothing to do with why I consider it so superior. Nothing at all. (Now the costumes in Killer ...) <I could cheerfully chuck Deathwatch from canon, were I not such a purist.> Now that's a good game - I do recall someone saying they tended to bar Dawn of the Gods from canon, you want to chuck Deathwatch and I like to believe that Power was Vila's bad dream. Anyone else want to nominate 'it didn't really happen' eps? Only rule is either [a] it doesn't affect the main thrust of the series plotline or [b] you can explain away where it does (for instance, in Power we're told that the hangar to Scorpio is locked and booby-trapped; in my fanon, it wasn't the latter and Soolin was perfectly capable of opening it while Vila was still dreaming :-). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

2 1

decompression
by Alison Page 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

I've seen a few posts on this list over the years asking about the effects of decompression (e.g. 'putting someone out the airlock'). Anyway there was an interesting demonstration on TV last night during which Tarrant-looky-likey Jeremy Clarkson was put into a decompression chamber. This simulated decompression in a high-flying aircraft, not a space-ship, however I think at very high altitudes the atmosphere is quite close to 'vacuum', only a fraction of sea-level pressure. In this instance the amusing Clarkson was accompanied by a man in a breathing-suit, which was lucky, because he almost immediately became so disoriented that he wasn't able to do one of those block puzzles you give to babies to play with. When they said 'Jeremy, it's time to put the breathing mask on' he just smiled goofily and carried on playing with the toy. The other chap had to reach over and put the oxygen mask against his face. Almost immediately he went pink, and said something like 'What was I thinking of?' But what of the physical effects? Well, they made him breathe out during the 3-second decompression process, and they said if he didn't then his lungs would inflate out of control, which I guess could be a bit yucky. But having done that he didn't seem in any danger of exploding bloodily. He did break wind quite a lot. Well, you have to equalise pressure somehow. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

1 0

Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #538 - 9 msgs
by Helen Krummenacker 02 Jul '01

02 Jul '01

> Oh but do admit, Holmes just did it *better*. Even a three line minor like > Dr Wiler, the almost silent Klute or the OTT Croupier are memorable; his > character cliches (such as Docholli, Chenie and Cevedic) are fun, and his > major creations - Bellfriar, Gambrill, Tynus (so ever-so-slightly slimy), > Jarriere, Krantor, Toise, Hunda and his people - are > just wonderful, and tend to figure *a lot* in my 'guests so good they would > make terrific regulars' musings :-) > And yet, NOT his: Carnell, Rashel, Kasabi, Ensor, Ensor's floating guardian that would have made a good pet for Avon, the moon disks, Tyce, Sarkoff, Neebrox, Dr. Plaxton-- you could make quite a list of one time appearances that people have wished for as regulars.

2 1

Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Sally Manton 01 Jul '01

01 Jul '01

Una wrote: <Ah, must spring to the defence of one of my favourites. The reason that I think it's a great ensemble piece is that it uses all the characters *in character* to drive the plot along.> <grin> one could say the same about Horizon actually ... it's just that for *some* of Our Heroes it's the less edifying side of their characters. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: [B7L] Re: other scriptwriters
by Sally Manton 01 Jul '01

01 Jul '01

Jacqueline wrote: <Worst case: Avon gets a special episode where his background is explained in excruciating whiny detail and because his crewmates react so understandingly, he suddenly learns to get along.> Hmmm. I think I read that story while compiling that little A-B list ... several times. <Avon then turns into a slightly sarcastic version of Mr. Spock, always doing the right thing.> <grin> but when push comes to shove, he usually *does* - albeit because someone else (like Blake or Cally) is doing the pushing :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Re: other scriptwriters
by Helen Krummenacker 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

B7 by: The writers for Star Trek: Next Generation. Avon is kicked off the ship halfway through season one because he doesn't get along with the rest of the crew. Somewhere along the way, the Federation is totally forgotten about, and we get a season3-like meandering among alien planets, or else post-Star One, Blake and the others are honored by being made the crew of the flagship of the Federation. Characters get weepy and emotional as they run into former lovers, family member, or schoolmates, but they never seem to continue the relationship after the particular show. Joss Whedon: much the same. But Guada Prime is only the beginning. Michael J Strazinski: The rebels might have actually had a feasible, if desperate, plan and had a chance in h*** of winning.

5 4

Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Sally Manton 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

I was watching Killer again (the pain, the pain:-)) and got to thinking about the fact that Robert Holmes, who wrote this, Gambit and Orbit, was offered the script editor's job ahead of Chris Boucher. And I do have to say I think we were lucky he turned it down. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy all three episodes, and absolutely *love* Killer, which I do think is the strongest, scriptwise, of the three. It's got its problems, but the contrasting Avon/Tynus and Blake/Bellfriar interactions are very appealing. Gambit suffers from extreme unevenness, with the Travis/Servalan/Krantor line getting all the attention and the Blake/Jenna/Cally/Docholli one being seriously starved of oxygen or interest, but its cleverness and the sheer style with which it was put together carry it through; Orbit is better than average fun, but IMO only gets its classic status because of that lethal kick in the last ten minutes. But some of the things that are common to all three episodes would IMO actually harm the show as a whole if (as Boucher was) he was re-writing whole slabs of the thing. For instance, he really does have a penchant for exposition, his quite complex plots (for TV action-adventure, okay?) involving quite blatant 'let's stop and let character A tell character B what the audience has to know' scenes (Blake and Bellfriar in Killer, Servalan and Jarriere in Killer). These can be very entertaining (I never like Servalan *more* than when she's trying to keep her temper with My Favourite Gnome) but they're not exactly subtle. The main problem I have with his scripts is that, while he writes terrific Avon-Vila, good Travis, and wonderfully memorable guest characters (Jarriere, Krantor & Toise, Bellfriar, Tynus & Gambrill, Egrorian) he shows almost no interest *at all* in the rest of the crew (except Blake in Killer. But *only* in Killer.) Jenna (a bimbette in both of his S2 scripts) Cally (pure wallpaper) and the Scorpio youngsters are barely acknowledged. Maybe it's unfair to compare, since CB wrote more scripts, but I have noticed that oft-mentioned favourites by him include those episodes - especially Shadow, Star One and DeathWatch - in which *all* of the crew get a goodly share of the action; Boucher had his favourites (and has freely acknowledged that Avon was No 1 :-)) but wrote well for *all* of the crew. Holmes episodes tend to be 'Blake's Two, Not Including Blake' ... would this, do you think, have bled over if he were overseeing the whole series? (I hate to think how his blatant disinterest in the Blake-Avon relationship might have affected the whole Star One crescendo, *especially* the episode itself). Anyone like to throw some thoughts on either scriptwriter? Or maybe muse on how one of the other writers *might* have gone in the role? (Let no one mention Ben Stee ...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

7 6

Re: [B7L] Other script editors [was Robert Holmes] (fwd)
by Angria＠t-online.de 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

I think Oliver Stone and B7 would go together quite well. Imagine "RB" - an investigation into the murder of Roj Blake which looks at the subject from all angles and concludes that Avon didn't do it. Or even "Servalan", a film biography of Madame President starring...um...Angeline Jolie as Servalan, Rupert Everett as Carnell, Anthony Hopkins as Secretary Rontane, Patrick Stewart as Bercol, Ewan MacGregor as Blake and Colin Firth as Avon. Tanja

1 0

Re: [B7L] Robert Holmes ... a few wandering musings
by Marian de Haan 30 Jun '01

30 Jun '01

Sally wrote: >Judith: ><But I like his ability to write well-rounded guest characters> > >and Marian: ><The other B7 writers were equally capable of that, with the possible exception of Roger Parkes and James/Jim Follett. Even Ben Steed managed it quite well. :-)> >Oh but do admit, Holmes just did it *better*.< Sorry, I don't agree :-) I find the London command trio, the Ortega crew, Largo, Rontane and Bercol, Grenlee and Forres, Gunn Sar, investigator Reeve and Keiller - to name a few - equally well written and memorable. Marian

2 1

Jump to page:

2025

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Blakes7