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5511 discussions

Subject: Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show
by Sally Manton 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Iain wrote: <15. Terminal: 'He meant it - he was going to kill you.' 'I got that impression.'> <grin> love it; the paucity of TeamUberAlles is such a refreshing change, isn't it? And it's not just that Avon *would* shoot another team member, but that the others are quite able and willing to *believe* that he would (and BTW, how long *has* Avon being carrying a gun around on board?) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show ever made
by Ellynne G. 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Wow, I can't believe all I felt I needed to reply to. Maybe I'd better go lurk for a few days. In the meantime - On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 15:35:36 +0100 "Una McCormack" <una(a)qresearch.org.uk> writes: I'm still an old romantic when > it comes to > Avon and Cally (you don't see this so much any more in fanfic, do > you?). I'm working on it. I think Avon needs the equivilant of a little sister (or maybe an older sister?), someone who's not going to be impressed and who wouldn't feel suicidal about pulling him aside and explaining reality to him ("She's nuts about you. Say something nice to her - something that _doesn't_ have to do with how the ship's engines work!"). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: Subject: Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show
by Ellynne G. 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 01:49:01 -0000 "Sally Manton" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> writes: > Iain wrote: (and > BTW, how long *has* Avon being carrying a gun around on board?) Probably after one of the times they were boarded (thought whether that was reason or whether he'd just been waiting for a convenient excuse is another story). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Cross-fandom
by Ellynne G. 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

On Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:27:02 -0400 "Dana Shilling" <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> writes: > Louise said: > > > > <snip very very funny snippet of Fraser and Ray as Blake and Avon> > > > > That's exactly how B7 would be in the DS universe :-) > Not to mention the Deep South-9 Universe. I was just thinking that > if, in Assassin, they were up against Faith (from BtvS) instead of > that > whiney wimp Piri, they would have been in REAL trouble. > Except that Soolin is probably the newest slayer (Buffy reincarnated? Or another Buffy sister? Or possibly something more demonic explaining how she started out as a blood drinking mutoid before further up the food chain . . . ?) Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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RE: [B7L] Cross-fandom
by Louise Rutter 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Ellynne wrote: >Avon and Ray I have a lot in common (cynics, a background >environment where corruption is taken for granted, partners they didn't >want who reek of naive optimism, girlfriends with mixed loyalties whose >deaths they're somewhat responsible for, a really neat vehicle that was >all his but that got blown up as the only way to defeat the bad guys, >etc). The ongoing joke being that, while Avon seems to spend half his >time finding out he was (if anything) being too lenient in his character >judgements, Ray has to deal with Fraser always being right. Not a comparison I would ever have made, though I see it now you mention it. Ray V always strikes me as having something of Vila about him - constantly whining about the trouble Fraser drags him into but never doing anything actively to stop it <g>. >In one episode, they're trying to hitch a ride and all the cars just >drive right past. Finally, Ray pulls out his gun and says he stopping the >next car no matter what. Fraser feels this isn't the way to do it. Then, >while they're fighting over the gun, a car finally pulls over and the >driver, in a very strong Canadian accent, asks if they need help. >Ray turns to Fraser and tells him he comes from a sick country. The Man Who Knew Too Little. I must have seen that ep about 10 times and I still laugh from start to finish every single time. I guess that's one of the reasons I love the series - the jokes stand up to repeated viewings and they leave you in such a good mood. Though I probably wouldn't be so fannish about it DS it weren't the fact that when the writers _did_ decide to do angst on a few occasions, they hit you round the head with a sledgehammer in a very B7 way. Nothing as dramatic as Blake but it comes close.... <snip very very funny snippet of Fraser and Ray as Blake and Avon> That's exactly how B7 would be in the DS universe :-) Louise

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Re: Subject: Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show
by Sally Manton 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

from my: <19. Games See 16. <g> Avon, of course, is still the champion and the master.> Try 'see 17' if you want it to make sense. Can't count, can't read my own typing ... God, I'd've been a lot of use on the Liberator, wouldn't I? Blake was actually very lucky there. Landed himself with a hot-shot pilot, a skilled thief/lockpick and a computer genius ... whereas he could have found himself on the London with a young ex-accountant (Nova?), a dodgy and incompetent forger (Selman?) and the bloke who got shopped 'cause he kept crashing the getaway cars (Arco) ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Subject: Re: [B7L] Twenty moments when you know you're watching the best TV show
by Sally Manton 06 Jun '01

06 Jun '01

Ooooh, I'll be in this one!!! Though limiting it to twenty ... these are by any means all of the Best moments, just the first twenty-*one* that come to mind ... 1. Spacefall First sight of the Liberator, best *spaceship* ever made ... *********************** 2. Time Squad: The First Flight Deck Fight. AVON: I thought it was agreed we wouldn't do anything without discussing it thoroughly. BLAKE: True. It was also agreed that anybody could opt out at any time. Just tell me when you want to leave. For two reasons. First, forget what you thought teamwork *meant* - this lot are going to give it a whole new world of meaning, mostly at the top of their not-inconsiderable voices (did anyone ever work so well together and fight so brilliantly *at the same time* as Blake and Avon?) Secondly, the first BIG indicator that the Hero was not above behaving decidedly and deliberately badly to get his way ... the white hat is already going a delicious shade of gray. *********************** 3. Duel: BLAKE: Have you got any better ideas? [Violent impact. As Blake and Avon reel back, Avon clutches Blake protectively, perhaps to steady him] AVON: As a matter of fact, no I haven't. BLAKE: Does that mean you agree? AVON: Do I have a choice? BLAKE: Yes. AVON: Then I agree. (Duel) Just six short lines, and it's almost that fascinating and unique relationship in a nutshell. *********************** 4. Breakdown: BLAKE: - I shall destroy your hands. <shiver> even greyer, and all the better because we don't actually *know* if he would have ... but I can believe it. ************************ 5. Bounty VILA: I'm entitled to my opinion. AVON: It is your assumption that we are entitled to it as well that is irritating. And 'He agrees with me. Makes it all seem worthwhile somehow.' The *other* most fascinating relationship is just about to kick into full gear ... ************************ 6. Redemption: The whole opening discussion/sparring match between My Heroes (see Time Squad above :-)). ************************ 7. Shadow VILA: Where are all the good guys? BLAKE: You could be looking at them. AVON: What a very depressing thought. Maybe the whole *series* in a nutshell ... especially considering what bastards the Good Guys can be ... ************************ 8. Weapon: RASHEL: [Holds the IMIPAK projector] No. Don't press it. You're both marked. A non-Valkyrie, an ordinary person holding her own against the Supreme Commander and *winning*. ************************ 9. Horizon: and the bad behaviour all round. Nice to know that Galactic Heroes react to ongoing stress by being human, grumpy, pigheaded, whiny etc, rather than Nobly (and Tiresomely) Rising Above It. ************************ 10. Killer: Blake landing in the evacuation tunnel on Fosferon, nearly getting himself killed, then getting thoroughly told off by a total stranger <g> ************************ 11. Trial: TRAVIS: So if Im guilty of murder, of mass murder, then so are all of you! (Trial) Croucher's finest moment. ************************ 12. Also Trial: AVON: One of these days they are going to leave you. They were almost ready to do so this time. BLAKE: Yes, I thought they might be. AVON: You handle them very skillfully. BLAKE: Do I? AVON: But one more death will do it. BLAKE: Then youd better be very careful. It would be ironic if it were yours. A small but perfect example of how perfect the wordplay on this show could be ... ************************ 13. Gambit: The Servalan-Jarriere scenes, of course. The most enjoyable bits of exposition ever ... ************************ 14. Star One: The Last Flight Deck Fight <g>, and Avon's glittering, icily cruel and utterly honest 'wading in blood' explosion. ************************ 15. And from the same: the End, from 'I gave him my word' (love the way he skirts Jenna's 'why?') through to VILA: Avon, this is stupid! AVON: When did that ever stop us? And *especially* Blake's 'I have always trusted you' ... The very very best ending to a season until the very *very* best two years later. ************************ 16. City on the Edge of the World: "You have a reputation for straightforward mayhem that's second to none. I've been an admirer of yours for, um, well, for as long as I can remember. Well maybe not that long, I mean, uh, you're not that old, are you? But, uh, then again, you did start very young, didn't you? I think I feel sick. " We must all use the skills we are given, and Vila's skill for creative panicking is second to none, is it? This whole scene is wooonderful ... ************************ 17. Rumours of Death: And yet another example of what clever, cruel bastards *Our* Heroes can be: TARRANT: Yes, Major, you're dying, but that's what you're paid for. ************************ 18. Terminal: Zen's death. No other computer could have made me cry ... ************************ 19. Games AVON: Oh, it's a calculated risk. But at least you and I can be certain that we can get away when we want to. See 16. <g> Avon, of course, is still the champion and the master. ************************ 20. The first sighting of Blake in 'Blake' - from Fearless Leader to Bloody Frightening ... The others changed as well, but we watched it happen over time. That first moment when we see what time and god-knows-what has done to Blake is a stunner. ************************ And, of course ... 21. The *real* End, from the moment Blake walks into the tracking gallery ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Review of The Way Forward: Crusades of Blake
by Sondra Sweigman 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Many thanks for your review of our zine, Tavia. I shall share it with the contributors, not all of whom are on-list. Sondra P.S. Re your comment about the difficulty of portraying a revolutionary realistically: Don't be so sure that none of us brought such a real-world background to the zine :-)

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The Way Forward: Crusades of Blake: Zine Review
by Tavia 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

The Way Forward: Crusades of Blake, edited by Sondra Sweigman This is a big fat zine (166 pp) which speaks of the love that the editor and her contributors have for the series and its ideals, and especially for the character of Blake. The presentation is excellent, with generally clear typesetting (though the sans font was a bit fuzzy in the ink-jet printout), some nice greyed-out images of Blake behind the title pages, and a sturdy format. Personally I'd have preferred a cheaper black-and-white approach, saving the colour printer for occasional pictures, but Pat Fenech's colour photomontages are very pretty. Few of the stories in 'The Way Forward' try to recreate the goal-oriented adventures of the original series; still fewer play with its science fictional trappings. There's also little speculation here about what ordinary life might have been like in the cramped and sterile environment of the Earth Domes. Instead, most of the stories examine Blake's character, either taking an introspective approach or revealing the man through his actions. The former approach is exemplified by 'Wind-Up Toy', in which Jacquelyn Taylor postulates that Blake fears he's being used by the Federation to betray his friends. ('Kayn's Hands' is another well-written 'what-if' piece by the same author.) The latter approach is taken by Sondra Sweigman's chilling 'The Choice', which highlights Blake's ultra-manipulative side. Also by 'Grey Scale' (Jean B Hubb), which retells an incident from the Second World War. For its original setting, plausible characters and realistic moral dilemma, this story was my pick of the zine. The rest of the crew isn't entirely neglected in 'The Way Forward's focus on Blake. Sally Manton's 'Fellow Feeling' has a plausible Vila narrator, while Michael J Miller ('The Ghost of You') creates an engaging cameo of a post-'Blake' Soolin struggling to come to terms with disability. While several stories feature Avon, surprisingly, Jenna and Cally play only minor roles. Criticism of a 'men-only crusade' is only partially allayed by a plethora of female one-off characters, who do feel a bit like 'the usual suspects'. Serious zines focusing on Blake face a few problems. Blake's lack of memory can make him a somewhat dull or confusing PoV character. The fragments we know of his background can make for repetition among stories that try to mesh closely with the series. There are few opportunities to expand the cast to include season 3 or 4 characters. Most seriously, perhaps, as few, if any, of us are revolutionaries by trade it's difficult to portray this side of his character realistically. Thankfully, 'The Way Forward' doesn't succumb to the temptation to whitewash Blake. Despite its gen classification, the zine doesn't shrink from violence, torture and killing, nor does it glorify any of them. On the whole, though, the stories in 'The Way Forward' have an upbeat feel, which occasionally seemed slightly at odds with the subject matter. I'm not convinced that the virtues celebrated here would survive under Federation repression, but it's nice to hope. Tavia 5 June 2001

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Re: [B7L] Re: crossover fandoms
by J MacQueen 05 Jun '01

05 Jun '01

Further to this sort of thing (and to Harry Potter, for that matter): On the electronic "noticeboard" at work, someone has sent out a call for broomsticks so that her child, a Harry Potter fan, can play quidditch with friends at a birthday party. Or at least pretend to, but you get the idea. Has me wondering, just a little, who here would put out a call for curling wands to make Liberator guns with, or hairdryers to make spaceships out of them... In my defence, I say this is a little more interesting than gutting an index, and my computer thinks so too - I've just logged back in again after it kicked me out before I could save a largish slab of work. Regards Joanne (fortunately for my temper, lunchtime will be soon) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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