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Re: Re [B7L] Curioser and curioser...
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

An analysis by Jenny Kaye. "Neil Faulkner" wrote Now here's a man and a half. > >This month seems to be getting more entertaining by the day. I always try to entertain. You know that Neil. Yesterday > >afternoon Fiona Moore sent me an email saying: > > > ><Hi Neil, > >I desperately, DESPERATELY need your help. What can I do?> No she didn't. That was me. > >followed by Wortham's original 'Word of warning' post, to which Moore > >appended no further comment. > > > >Some hours later, even as I was drafting a reply (along the lines of "What > >the fuck do you expect *me* to do?"), she sent a follow up message thus: > > > ><Ignore earlier panic. Jenny's got everything under control.> That's true. That was me as well. > >Moore has not responded to my reply to her original post. > > >As was presumably made clear by my accidental misposting last week, Bad move, Faulkner, you've just made a big slip there. This posting wasn't accidental. He believed that Fiona and Jenny were the same people. They aren't. Faulkner was setting a trap. > >I've been in offLyst contact with Moore. Yes, for a while. But she was so sick of your juvenile bollocks, that she handed it over to me. Do you remember my line "you're looking in the wrong place." I was trying to sound you out. But what I discovered about you frightened the shit out of me. I can only say that the witty and > >insightful poster she was onLyst That was Fiona. She'd like to hear that, if it weren't for the fact that you've tried to stab her in the back. Shall I forward this to her? swiftly turned into an obnoxious snotty > >little cow, No she didn't Neil. That was me again. Not as clever as you pretend, are you? :-) with a conversational style (handbags included) not unlike > >someone else who is currently highly visible on Lysator. The handbag is my motif. You're now working backwards Neil. > >Furthermore, she used this personal correspondence to launch a stream of > >vitriolic invective at Lysator That is something of a distortion. > >and just about everyone on it, That is a total lie. And I should know. I was writing all this shit. slashers in > >particular It would be more accurate to say that I attacked the slash mentality. Which is aberrant. > >but by no means them alone. That is a lie. He is lying because that email I sent begging for help told him that she was an innocent little waif. As soon as he decided that she was weak he struck. What a vicious bastard. He hates Ashton Press, but he's accepted that situation. He's too independently minded to be brainwashed. But he knows what's going on, don't you Neil? And you don't care. He lost the ability to distinguish between good and evil years ago. These tirades would seem to have at > >least some foundation in the way poor fickle Shane (clueless wanker that he > >was) That's telling as well. was left to fight his tediously protracted scuffle against the > >Wortham/Rosenthal bastards I do like that line. Neil isn't a Slasher. He hates the stuff as well. But that's the only way he differs from these people. > > with no one lifting a finger to help him. Including you. Who sat back and watched the fun. You're doing this now because you hate Fiona and Annie equally. But you've made a big mistake fucker. I needed a lamb to entice out the wolves. And didn't they come running. I tagged them as well. As for Shane, he was going about it all the wrong way. You do not use brute force to attack a force you do not understand. There was no way he could win. There are at least 16 slashers on here, some under multiple names, pathetically desperate to push their own "take" on the show. Shane was taking it too personally. He is gay. He saw Ashton Press's output as homophobic filth. It is. He was so offended that he went at them hammer and tongs. Bad move. When he started siding with Julia Jones of all people I knew he'd lost for sure. But I watched what happened and learned. > >Shane, > >'would seem, is a personal friend of Moore's. As far as I am aware they are friends. Fiona was appalled at what happened to him. And then she met me. The cavalier fannish > >attitude to Terry Nation's (supposed) writing talent or (counter-supposed) > >lack of would also appear to have a lot to do with it. Neil hates Terry Nation. I don't know why, but it runs very deep. Perhaps because he's been wasting his life trying to work out what Standard By Six means, and has been drawing a blank. Small-minded bastard. > >I don't know if anyone else has been in offLyst contact with Moore As far as I'm aware they haven't. And, for the most part, nor were you. and has > >anything similar to report. They won't do. It was just you and me. I won't trust anything "Jenny Kaye" says on > >that matter. That's interesting. It's suddenly occurred to this pseudo intellectual that I may rip the fucker to shreds. I've been doing it offlyst for the best part of three weeks now. I would just love the chance to do it onlyst, Neil. > >Don't ask me exactly what the fuck's going on here, because I haven't a > >clue. True. Clueless is one of your attributes. But I have suspected for a couple of weeks now that Moore and Kaye > >are working together, Only in the loosest possible way. A pro keeps it simple. I wouldn't make a mistake like Fiona made. But she took what happened to Shane personally and wouldn't listen to me. > >if indeed they are two separate people. Wrong again Neil. She's a lamb. I'm a wolf. But I'm also a shepherd. I gave you a big enough clue. Jules Winnfield. > >Animal camouflage don't count for squit when some cunt sets fire to the > >forest. This forest is full of cunts like you unfortunately. > >Fan the flames Now we see the real Neil. When animal camouflage breaks down. Something nasty comes out. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

"Alison Page" wrote: >Claudia said - > > >Hm. I don't buy that at all. If that's what the actor says he had in > >mind, I'll accept that, but that's not what comes across on screen to me. > >To me, he's just in terror. > >I didn't get it from the performance either. Though it would be quite a >difficult thing to convey in the few seconds Vila is on shot during that >part of 'Orbit'. It would be impossible. >But I don't think it would be quite out of character. > If Vila thought he >couldn't possibly survive, so it was 'either we both die, or the other guy >survives, but in any case I am finished' he might decide to do something >heroic. Who knows how anyone would react under those kind of extreme circumstances? >After all that is exactly what he did in 'Blake' - sacrifice himself in a >very untypical brave act. Total distortion of what actually happened. Arlen had them all at gunpoint, Vila overpowered her, then he was shot in the back by a guard who emerged from nowhere. I think he was able to do it, because he thought >he really had no escape, so he had nothing left to lose (I'm talking about >in 'Blake'). Wrong. I imagine Vila was very aware of the chances of survival at >any time, and always tried to maximise them. That's true. But once those chances hit >zero, the calculus of cowardice no longer applied. That last comment is very perceptive. It happened once, so why >not twice? In "City at the Edge of the World" it happened, but through love. In "Blake" he isn't sacrificing himself, he's taking a chance. >I agree that who he felt he was sacrificing himself *for* is an added >complication, though. That might change everything. Yes, that's true. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Alison Page 19 May '01

19 May '01

Claudia said - >Hm. I don't buy that at all. If that's what the actor says he had in >mind, I'll accept that, but that's not what comes across on screen to me. >To me, he's just in terror. I didn't get it from the performance either. Though it would be quite a difficult thing to convey in the few seconds Vila is on shot during that part of 'Orbit'. But I don't think it would be quite out of character. If Vila thought he couldn't possibly survive, so it was 'either we both die, or the other guy survives, but in any case I am finished' he might decide to do something heroic. After all that is exactly what he did in 'Blake' - sacrifice himself in a very untypical brave act. I think he was able to do it, because he thought he really had no escape, so he had nothing left to lose (I'm talking about in 'Blake'). I imagine Vila was very aware of the chances of survival at any time, and always tried to maximise them. But once those chances hit zero, the calculus of cowardice no longer applied. It happened once, so why not twice? I agree that who he felt he was sacrificing himself *for* is an added complication, though. That might change everything. Alison

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Re: [B7L] Re: Orbit
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

This email is also a conditioning device. padme(a)bantha.org wrote > >"Alison Page" <alison(a)alisonpage.demon.co.uk> wrote: > >: Steve said - > > > >: >Re what I said earlier about Vila's professional attack on Arlen in > >Blake,: if he had those skills, why didn't he go for Avon, or was he too gutted at the > >: betrayal? > > > >: Michael Keating said Vila was crying because he was trying to get his act > >: together to put *himself* out the airlock. That is, he was going to > >: sacrifice himself, as you think Blake would. Quite frankly this is bollocks. > >Hm. I don't buy that at all. Good. If that's what the actor says he had in > >mind, I'll accept that, I think it is very unlikely that he did. If he did however, he was wrong. but that's not what comes across on screen to me. > >To me, he's just in terror. Yes. > >Not exactly betrayal, because Avon didn't > >do anything Vila didn't expect of him. That is a fudge. He doesn't have to wait to see > >Avon's reaction to Orac's comment; he's already hidden before Avon comes > >down with his gun and his awful soft voice. Only because he suddenly had the most terrible feeling. Until that moment he really thought he was safe with Avon. Mistake. > >I don't think Vila would sacrifice himself for Avon, That's true. but I think (and this > >came up during our post-episode discussion) that he *would* sacrifice > >himself > >for Blake. No he wouldn't. Vila would always put himself first. He's not the sacrificial type. Blake would be willing to sacrifice himself for Vila, and Vila > >would return the favor, in my opinion. Then you're wrong. And it's interesting to note that you didn't put IMO, but wrote the words. But he wouldn't for Avon, because > >Avon wouldn't for him. That's true. > >What would happen between Blake and Avon on the shuttle? I have no idea. > >Neither of them would hide, so instead there would be some kind of > >"so this is it after all these years" confrontation. Blake would have taken the lead. They would have sorted it out together. I'm sure Blake > >wouldn't kill Avon, That's true. but I don't think Avon would kill Blake either, > >_in that circumstance_. True. I think in the end Blake would sacrifice himself > >and Avon would be destroyed by it. Bullshit. He didn't even deal that well with > >Tarrant going down with Scorpio when he was the only one who could save > >the other. He let him do it though, didn't he? In a case where either of the two had the ability to save > >the other and Blake saved Avon... well. As I say, I think it would > >destroy him. Totally the opposite. This starts out well, but in the end it becomes another Avon "was nice really" email. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Vila the Vegetable
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

Mistral wrote: > >Jenny Kaye wrote: > > > > > > Mistral wrote: > > > > > > > >If the characters were vegetables, what do you think they'd be? > > > > >Vila would be a cucumber, because they're seedy and frequently > >pickled. Avon might be a hot pepper, Travis a Brussels sprout. > > > > > > > > > >Mistral > > > > > > Another tagged slasher upping the drug count. > > > >Sorry, 'Jenny', No, that's Jenny, 'Mistral'. > >your ignorance is showing again. Hand bag. You've mistaken an > >interest in a free press (which I have) What are you doing on Lysator then? for an interest in slash (which > >I don't have). That's interesting. You have just clearly stated that an interest in "free press" is not one that is compatible with "slash". I agree. If you'd been paying attention to the discussions in > >recent months, you'd know that. I was giving you a great deal of attention Mistral. > >Whatever credibility you imagine you've > >had, you just tore apart all by yourself. Again, interesting. Why should I be worried about tearing apart a "credibility" which is "imagined"? If you're not a slasher, why are you acting like one? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Freedom City (was Re: When "Animals" camouflage)
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

Tiger M wrote > >I had been trying to stay out of this, I bet you have. but I feel the need to make some > >corrections concerning the Freedom City list and its policies. > > > >In a message dated 05/19/2001 6:52:08 AM Central Daylight Time, > >jennycat55(a)hotmail.com writes: > > > > > They say many a truth is said in jest. It's a strange thing ambition, > >it can lead you into many places. You rule the roost at Freedom City, but > >you're not happy with just that. > > > >If anyone could be said to rule the roost at Freedom City, it's me, the > >listowner. And what are you? A slasher. > > I'm definitely not Leah, You don't have to be. > >And believe it or not, I don't have the kind of absolute, > >totalitarian control that you seem to think I do. Freedom City is dominated by slashers. All Leah's interested in is pushing that mindset, but she's pushing at an open door with Freedom City, that's why Leah and Annie are on here. Why are you here Tiger M? It's not to discuss B7 that's for sure. The slashers are here because they want their interpretation to be the only one. Why use IMO's? Why use Fluff tactics? They are conditioning techniques. Some of you out there may be thinking, "Why would they want to do this? What good will it do them?" They want to do it because they are small minded little Nazis. And they crave control. > > > So you come here to Lysator. Everyone on Freedom > > > City is by definition a slasher, > > > >This is incorrect. We are a slash-friendly list So everyone is by definition in favour of slash. , but not exclusive. Not > >everyone on FC is a slash fan, or even into erotica. Many list members > >just like the relaxed atmosphere there, and my only stipulation is that they be > >tolerant of their fellow list members who do like slash and het erotica and > >that they follow the rules. That is insane. You are a slash list. On there slash is the dominant reading. Anyone who is quite frankly stupid enough to go for the "relaxed atmosphere" is very soon going to become a slasher. It's unavoidable. If you are using IMO's and Fluff tactics here, then they are going to be used there also. And worse. I know conditioning devices when I see them. > >Freedom City is open to anyone who is over 18 and legally an adult in the > >area where they live, and is willing to abide by its rules, two of which > >include the prohibition of flaming and trolling. Yes. Because a bucolic atmosphere is something to cultivate in a land of slashers. "Don't think, just accept. There is no such thing as truth. There is no such thing as reality. All interpretations are valid." But the dominant interpretation is slash. Therefore that becomes the accepted one. What it is saying is that, "All interpretations are valid, so it's just as right to say that this is a slash show as anything else. All interpretations are valid, so the scriptwriter's opinions don't matter, All interpretations are valid, so it's just as valid to say that Avon is a nice guy as that he's a psychopath..." But guess what? This isn't the series to play mind games with. There are some very powerful themes in B7 concerning mind control and mental illness. Remember Terry Nation was very interested in the Nazis and themes of mind control keep appearing in his work. This isn't vacuous Classic Trek, this is a British series heavily influenced by writers such as George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, Anthony Burgess and Graham Greene. The show is also influenced to a great extent by George Markstein and David Tomblin. I bet you haven't heard those names before have you? They worked on The Prisoner. A series that used for its basis mind altering and reprogramming techniques which had been devised by the British secret service during WW2. VERY VERY DANGEROUS. One of the people commissioned to work on The Prisoner was Roger Parkes. You may all believe that B7 was some cheap crap that was churned out during the 1970's, but I'll tell you something. You fuck with that series, and it'll fuck with you, PERMANENTLY. Remember, in a close text reading of Space Fall, I demonstrated that Leylan was a camouflaged psychopath. You thought he was a nice guy, didn't you? If you hadn't had any suspicion in 20 years of watching this show, then what are you getting out of it, in a closed environment like this one? And who are you modeling yourselves on? Another psychopath. Avon. The man who people here say is a nice guy. A poor wounded misunderstood guy who just wants to be left alone to explore the galaxy. Bollocks. Ever seen "Hannibal"? Now there's a film which demonstrates the dangers of thinking a psychopath is a nice guy. Another British director, by the way, and a man who understands dangerous subtextual themes. He ensures that the audience, at the end of the film, loses all sympathy for the character through two horriffic scenes, one after the other. Now why do you think he did that? And another thing. In Britain in the 1970s TV was a young medium. Many programmes of the time were very experimental. A few years later it became set in its ways but then it was still wild. Right now we're dealing with another young medium. The Internet. It's becoming set in its ways but we won't know what the outcome of extensive exposure will be for at least another ten years. Already people have complained of obsessive-compulsive behaviour linked to it. > >It's my understanding that the great majority of the people on this list > >are adults, able to think for themselves and make their own decisions. Wrong. > >There may be some minors here, Oh, really. but I don't think even they would be here if they > >didn't have at least a certain amount of intelligence and maturity. You stupid bitch. I've seen some intelligence here but I've seen virtually no maturity. > >From where I > >stand, it looks like what you are trying to do is make other people's > >decisions for them. No. I am trying to make people aware of what's going on here. You obviously don't care. I do. Why do you think I am putting in all this effort ? For my health? > >Please stop making unwarranted personal attacks on other people. They are not unwarranted. They are perfectly justified. > >Tiger M, Freedom City Mindcontroller Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Orbit
by Steve Rogerson 19 May '01

19 May '01

Anna said: "I think that between 'Orbit' and 'Blake' he asked Dayna to give him some self-defense lessons, just in case." That works for me. It deserves to find its way into a story. Trying to imagine Dayna teaching Vila and Vila worried that she's going to hurt him as she shows off the moves. Dayna would do it too, especially if Vila told her what happened on the shuttle. Dayna's always struck me as being honorable, so I suspect she'd be well upset if she'd known what Avon had done, or tried to do. I reckon she could accept him being underhand with their enemies but not with the crew. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Federation political hierarchies & comparisons
by Tavia 19 May '01

19 May '01

Sally wrote: >Thinking about some of my favourite politicians (I believe there's an >election going on in the UK at the minute? I must admit this week's campaigning has seemed rather too appropriate (for those not privileged to enjoy this particular feast, the Deputy Leader of the party currently in government punched a demonstrator in the face a few days back, and the demonstrator ended up being questioned by the police). >There's also a flavour (for me) of decay, especially in the 4th >series, that clashes with the canonical fact that the Federation *is* in >Pylene-driven resurgence and makes me believe that said resurgence is >probably due to collapse soon with or without Our Heroes' intervention. In S1--3 we get frequent glimpses into the heart of Federation Space Command; in S4 there's hardly a mention of central government of any description, we only see the scrapping around the edges. I don't see that we have much evidence either way for what's happening centrally. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] interruption
by Jenny Kaye 19 May '01

19 May '01

"Dana Shilling" writes> > > >Sally asked: > > > > > > Watching Blake and Avon fight is fun. Let's get back to that, shall we? > > > (Another lure - *why* is watching Blake and Avon fight fun?) > >1. Because the subject matter is real and important--they really ARE > >fighting over the fate of the galaxy WRONG. > >2. Because they'd both rather fight with each other than do almost > >anything else the BBC will let them do in that time slot, so they > >devote all their considerable talents to it WRONG. > >3. Because the Blake-Avon Galaxy Series games can be staged > >perfectly well on a BBC budget That's true. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [Frivolous] Re: Re [B7L] Curioser and curioser...
by Tavia 19 May '01

19 May '01

Hi Penny, nice to have you back.... A touch of frivolity appears sorely in need on this Lyst Tavia 'because kittens have claws'

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