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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Terminal (was: moloch/limiters)
by Sally Manton 06 May '01

06 May '01

After I wrote: <Avon wasn't in a state of shock from the 'Blake is dead' bit, he'd have probably taken some pleasure in pointing this out.> Jenny asked: <What do you think he would have said?> Something pertinent about the worth of worthless scientific experiments run by totalitarian dictatorships, I like to think. But of course, he *is* in shock ... <I don't agree. They are crucial to the underlying subtext of Terminal. Want to discuss it?> Errr ... sorry, no offence meant to you at all, but the last time *I* got involved in a subtext discussion everyone on the Lyst ended up with virtual sore throats *and* headaches (see February). I might agree that they're part of a subtext, but they're so badly done (IMHO, and it's odd, most of the time I can accept bad science but this bit sticks) that the episode would be far better off without the whole thing. YMMV, obviously. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] No changes, please ...
by Sally Manton 06 May '01

06 May '01

Dana wrote: <"Orac" has my favorite Blake line of all time: when he mutters "I'm fed up wi' takin' orders" after a whole one and a half orders.> Yes yes yes!!! (and it's a very *loud* mutter :-)) and given his propensity for handing them out to everyone in sight ... one more reason why I love him. Going back to 'Blake', one has to say that if Avon *had been* thinking straight, giving Blake an order ("stand still") even at gunpoint ... one would think he knew his Blake better than that <veg> _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Sally Manton 06 May '01

06 May '01

Leslie wrote: <From what I know about production-line television, a read through with the cast would involve the camera ready script. Not a script typed up by Chris's wife!> Again, fair enough, I concede to your experience. I only suggested GT because [a] it's on record that he changed a line and *very* much for the better in 'Horizon' (both that post and at least two other sources I've read confirm it) and [b] it was fun imagining someone *trying* to say the line and cracking up till it was dumped. I'm certainly not wedded to the concept as canon. <Certainly, leaving my professional experience aside, from my involvement with Fanderson, when actors start getting script approval, disaster ensues.> But it did happen occasionally on B7 - on the 'Blake's back' tapes, Stephen Grief and Chris Boucher himself confirm it (the latter, not surprisingly, with disapproval :-)) Interestingly, there seems (from what I've read/heard) to be some confusion over exactly *whose* idea it was for Avon to step protectively over Blake's body three minutes later - Jenny, you've got a camera script, is it in there? <It would be logical to assume that the reason the scene was changed was because Chris Boucher found a better way of doing it.> That is not *nearly* as much fun, Leslie. :-) <At the end of the Trial article Alan Stevens says: "The fact that so much of the script's first draft appears virtually unaltered in the final transmitted episode is, quite frankly, astonishing, and it can only serve as a testament to what a fine, dedicated and extremely talented writer Chris Boucher is." I think this is a fair comment.> Oh, absolutely - the the same script as this dud line, he's written some quotable quotes to (pun intended) die for, some fabulous lines ... Avon's "Is staying alive too good for you?" Tarrant's "Thinking of making an offer?" Blake's "it's getting so you can't make a dishonest living on this planet anymore" and "That central computer doesn't care who it makes respectable, does it?" to name just a few. And we could go through his other scripts as well and pick out plenty of gems (checking first, of course, to make sure they're not the ones he borrowed :-)) It's no slur on a fine writer to say this one cut line was a dud. Personally, though I think RoD is chock-full of great writing, it IMO contains one of his other rare duds, in the last three lines, which strain too hard for effect. *Those* ones not only got into the filmed version, they were used for the title (obviously, a lot of people disagree with me on this point). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #392 - 10 msgs
by Helen Krummenacker 06 May '01

06 May '01

Hi. I have my new computer, and I've figured out how to get the email working more or less properly on it. So I've re-subbed. > We've done what changes we'd like. Now, would anyone like to give us: > > [a] three things about Blake's 7 as a series that make it special for them, > and different from other shows? 1. The dialogue. I love witty dialogue, and the series is full of sayings that make ofr epigrams (and inspires more in fanfic) 2. Servalan. Yes, I know she's Over the top, but deliciously so... an evil Aunt Mame, someone so charismatic I find her enjoyable in spite of her evil. Now, I've seen male villians who could be charsismatic, but Servalan is really the only villianess who has appealled to me so much. 3. The background. Lots of hints of familiar (Brave New World references, etc) and yet so incomplete.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Leslie Clifford 06 May '01

06 May '01

On Sun, 06 May 2001, "Sally Manton" wrote: > > Jenny wrote: > <If that's in the camera script then Mary Ridge did not cut any lines on the > day of recording.> > > Fair enough - as the original 1993 post said, a lot of hers were rehearsal > scripts. So the assumption is that Chris Boucher wrote it, but either Mary > Ridge or Gareth Thomas (or both :-)) scrapped it in rehearsals According to Trial: The Missing evidence in Zenith magazine, it says, "The first draft, which took three weeks to complete, was originally written in long-hand and then typed up by Chris's wife for submission. Discussions then took place with producer David Maloney and director Derek Martinus before the final version was prepared for recording." Note that it doesn't say that the actors were involved in the script discussions, just the writer/script-editor, the producer and the director.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Sally Manton 06 May '01

06 May '01

Jenny wrote: <If that's in the camera script then Mary Ridge did not cut any lines on the day of recording.> Fair enough - as the original 1993 post said, a lot of hers were rehearsal scripts. So the assumption is that Chris Boucher wrote it, but either Mary Ridge or Gareth Thomas (or both :-)) scrapped it in rehearsals (I can't help wondering if this was because *someone* had trouble saying it without cracking up? <veg>) As it is, Blake's final words are just soooo perfect ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Jenny Kaye 06 May '01

06 May '01

Julia wrote: >In message: Sally Manton ><smanton(a)hotmail.com> writes > >After the third shot ... > > > ><BLAKE: Oh Avon. I didn't take any of them on trust ... except you ... >You are > >my ... only friend.> > > > ><grin> now I'm all for good emotion-packed A-B dialogue, but even *I* >think this > >is a bit rich ... > >Ditto. It's a rare bad line from the master, and Ridge was quite right >to chop it. She and Boucher between them (with a little help from the >actors:^) turned out a stunning piece of drama. I have a photocopy of the camera script for Series D Episode 13 - Blake. On page 87 it starts: BLAKE: (MOVES FORWARD) Avon it's me Blake! AVON: Stand still! (BLAKE STOPS) Have you betrayed us? (THEN ALMOST TO HIMSELF) Have *you* betrayed me? BLAKE: Tarrant doesn't understand! AVON: Neither do I Blake! BLAKE: I set all this up? AVON: Yes. BLAKE: I've been waiting for you. (BLAKE HALF EXTENDS A HAND AND BEGINS TO MOVE TOWARDS AVON. AVON DRAWS HIS GUN AND FIRES. BLAKE STAGGERS SLIGHTLY BUT KEEPS MOVING FORWARD. COLD AVON FIRES AGAIN AND AGAIN. BLAKE STAGGGERS THE LAST FEW FEET TO AVON. page 88: INVOLUNTARILY AVON PUTS OUT A HAND TO STEAD HIM) BLAKE: Oh Avon. (AVON JERKS AWAY AND BLAKE FALLS. AVON STARES DOWN AT BLAKE. If that's in the camera script then Mary Ridge did not cut any lines on the day of recording. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Sally Manton 05 May '01

05 May '01

Julia: <I'm not entirely sure about the etiquette, as the only place I have a direct quote is from a thread on The Other List. I'd rather leave it up to those who've actually seen the script in question as to whether they want to put their notes on a publicly archived part of the net. The relevant line is "Oh, Avon...", for those who remember the discussion.> Hey, I can help here :-) being a history-of-everything nut, I've trawled the actual Lysator archives & I found this info posted waaay back into 1992, along with a lot of other details from a poster who owned a great number of scripts at the time. As it's already on public archives, I presume I can quote it here as well: After the third shot ... <BLAKE: Oh Avon. I didn't take any of them on trust ... except you ... You are my ... only friend.> <grin> now I'm all for good emotion-packed A-B dialogue, but even *I* think this is a bit rich ... There's also a couple of good points regarding [a] Blake's 'missed' in Horizon (apparently an add-lib of Gareth's) and the question of whether Servalan did/did not notice the state of the Liberator at the end of Terminal. These were apparently mostly rehearsal scripts, and some of the changes made by the time we got it are veeeerrrry interesting. For anyone who wants to look up the post - and the changes made and notes added to a whole swag of scripts - try February 1992, the thread 'Bits from the scripts"). Sally - infinitely grateful to Calle for making the archives so much easier (IMO) *to* trawl ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] moloch/limiters
by Sally Manton 05 May '01

05 May '01

Jacqui wrote: <How come Vila's 'friend' in 'Moloch' didn't have a limiter when he was far more dangerous than Gan?> I always presumed it was to do with the fact that Gan was convicted of actual murder, something that isn't necessarily so with Doran. The limiter prevents him from *killing*, so (being bureaucrats) they tried them out on killers first ... <Makes it more likely that the limiter was an experimental device tried out on a group of 'moderately dangerous' criminals & as soon as 'one' person with the device went berserk the whole lot of them were shipped off 'where it wouldn't matter.'> Quite possibly, and without contradicting the 'murderers only' bit :-) <And how come Moloch 'himself' did not resemble the Links of Terminal more - both are theoretically 'evolved humans'.> But in both cases evolved under very particular circunstances on just one particular world, so it makes sense that they'd go in completely different directions. Servalan is IMO talking absolute rubbish, and if Avon wasn't in a state of shock from the 'Blake is dead' bit, he'd have probably taken some pleasure in pointing this out. (The links are the one thing about Terminal that really annoys me, they're both idiotic (IMHO-only) and completely unnecessary to the episode). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] scripts and other ephemera
by Sally Manton 05 May '01

05 May '01

Julia wrote: <Turning serious for a moment - this list is publicly archived, and there is nothing barring people from quoting material from here in another forum. The Other List, in both current and previous incarnations, is not archived, and there is a specific requirement that members not quote material from other people's posts outside the list without their prior permission. Mentioning that I know something about what was on this particular copy of the script is fine, given that I've heard about it through other channels (i.e. yakking at cons) as well. A direct quote here from a post on The Other List without first checking with the author would be seriously naughty, and I don't have any other written reference.> Agreed to all of this, which was why I was so pleased to be able to supply the line from the Lyst archives instead. Though I have to admit, I clipped it to *just* the line because, public archive or not, I would have felt a little uncomfortable *quoting* the whole post, which includes the original poster's own opinions, as that person is no longer on the list (but that's just me). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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