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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Alison Page 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

I'm not particularly *trying* to be annoying by saying this - but aren't both of those positions rather extreme? Deliverance does rather lazily use gender cliches. I think B7 is somewhat flawed by laziness of writing and plotting, mixed up with the good stuff. I don't think it's enough to say 'well, a male priest would have grovelled just like Meegat did'. because showing an innocent awed man grovelling at Avon's feet (or Jenna's) would have been less dull, less safe, and less cliched. The writer didn't think of it, or didn't choose to do that. Similarly, the plot could have had Jenna showing greater competence, and rescuing herself, but it didn't rise above the conventional enough. On the other hand - I don't think it is *that* offensive as an episode. It's just lazy and dull in so far as it sticks to the bland conventions of adventure stories. Alison

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Zine library at Redemption
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Dear all, I'm once again running the zine library at Redemption. The idea of the library is that people get the opportunity to read zines which have now gone out of print or are not easily available. If you have out of print or any other zines that you would be willing to lend to the library for the weekend, do contact me. The library is only open when there is a steward present, and readers are asked to leave their bags and food and drink outside. No zines are allowed outside the library. I am lending my own set of very rare 1980s zines and newsletters, so these precautions work in my interest too! <g> Contact me offlist if you are willing to help, Una

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Re: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Stephen Date wrote: >P.S. And how thick am I for not realising until 30 >seconds ago that the episode Shadow was named, not >only after the drug but after the relationship between >the Federation and the TN ? Doh ! Oh... Una

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Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Harriet wrote: >Do you think people like Ben Steed really exist, then? I think he's Germaine Greer's dark side. Una

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Stefaan Michiels 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Elynne : > > She's incapable of > > > launching the rocket herself > Wendy : >Because she is a helpless woman, looking for a man to >do the proper work. No, because she doesn 't know anything of computers. Looking for somebody who does know anything about it and can get the job done. Elynne : > > It seems safe to assume Meegat's people had some > > males among them, none > > of whom were rocket scientists. > Wendy : >Is there any evidence of this? Not directly. But she did say there were some of them alive. So it seems safe to assume that there were males around. And it seems also safe to assume that they weren 't rocket scientists ( why else wait for some Prince of Darkness on His Black Horse from space to do it? ) Wendy : >Anyway I don't see that >this changes anything. Like ELynne already said : that would make all of them as helpless as Meegat, regardless of being male or female. Elynne : > > No, she requires a rocket scientist - or pilot, or > > engineer, or whizzo > > computer freak. Wendy : >Yes but in the end the author didn't chose Jenna, he >chose Avon to perform the act. Seems logical enough since the athor introduced him as the computer expert in "SPACE FALL". Wendy : > > The rocket is nothing more than a crude metaphor > > Elynne : > > Er, it's just possible the rocket looked like a > > rocket because that's > > what rockets look like, isn't it? I don't recall > > Freud being hired as a consultant for NASA. Wendy : >No. The author used a rocket because it looked like a >giant phallus. You're are confusing fiction with real >live again. The ship didn't have to be a rocket at That would also explain perfectly why "DUEL" was set in a forest. Now, On the one hand you have the image of an author who is thinking "hmm, how can I get this people from one planet to another??? .... I 've got it : a rocket!!!! Brilliant!" On the other hand you have an author thinking "How can I be as sexist as possible? .... Got it. I am going to let them move to another planet and then I can use a ROCKET to do it with. Brilliant!!!!" I don 't see why the first point of view should be less plausible than the second. Elynne : > > I grant you that Avon is suffering radiation > > poisoning and that quickly > > leaving and getting the needed medicine must rank > > pretty high so, no, I > > don't think he hung around too long after. Wendy : >Interestingly misremembered here. Avon doesn't know >he's got radiation poisoning until the next episode. Maybe misremebered. But they did know there was a dangerous level of radiation, so sick or not, you would want to get out of there as soon as possible. And about leaving Meegat behind : Why are we all assuming that the radiation is as dangerous to meegat as it is to Our Heroes? Since her people have lived on that planet for a long time, they probably have adapted to it somehow. Stefaan _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

I'd watch the whole episode for the amused / embarrassed / moved-despite-himself looks on Avon's face. Meegat knows exactly what she wants and how to get it. Perhaps she's secretly a psychostrategist, and if the party *had* included Jenna, or Blake, we'd have had a whole different dress and act from her... Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Stephen Date 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

--- Harriet Monkhouse <101637.2064(a)compuserve.com> wrote: > Penny made excuses: > >Unfortunately as an imaginary assassin I can only > > kill imaginary people, so you will first have to > present > > me proof that Ben Steed is an imaginary person. > > *Imagine* killing him, then. > > Do you think people like Ben Steed really exist, > then? Apropos of Messrs Steed and Jung, I remember reading in Jung's 'Answer to Job' his theory that the John who wrote the Gospel and the Epistles was also the John who wrote Revelation. His argument was that having written about love in the Gospel and the Epistles, he had to get all the pent up aggression out of his system by writing the book of Revelation. Following this argument, given that Chris Boucher wrote wonderful, clever, nuanced scripts, did he have to get the confused misogynistic rubbish out of his system by writing HoK, Moloch and Power. Could Ben Steed be Chris Boucher's Shadow side ? Stephen Date. P.S. And how thick am I for not realising until 30 seconds ago that the episode Shadow was named, not only after the drug but after the relationship between the Federation and the TN ? Doh ! ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Stephen Date 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

My two pen'north on the subject: The worst thing about Deliverance is that it turns Jenna into a damsel in need of rescue, whilst handing her field of expertise over to Avon. I don't have a problem with Avon's relationship with Meegat - innocence being a rare quality in the B7 universe I can imagine Avon being thrown off balance when he meets it. However, I don't imagine they'd have done something really radical like leave Avon tied up in a tent for most of the episode, and have Jenna meet a personable young bloke in flowing robes, who thought she was the Messiah. - Sorry Sally. Incidentally, may I express the view that Meegat is neither weak nor stupid. Her world view is not a scientific one and she reacts to Avon in a way that most of us would not. (I love the bit when she reassures Gan and Vila that the Lord Avon will protect them) However in the light of the knowledge available to her, her reactions are not unreasonable. Incidentally, everyone homes in on the bits when she is grovelling at Avon's feet. I think one of the more moving parts of the story is when she is telling Avon about the plight of her people and bursts out that, her people had expected him much sooner. Given that at this point she still thinks that Avon is the Messiah, this shows that she is far from feeble. We don't know if she stayed on Cephlon or not - so any speculation is legitimate. The final scene could easily have taken place after her people had been dropped off on an uninhabited planet - or they may have chosen to stay. Power is frankly, rather confused and silly, but there is a definite streak of misogyny in Steed's scripts (the whole Avon-Pella dynamic, for example) which I think is absent from Nation's. (I agree with Neil here) If I to choose between losing Deliverance and Power, I would much rather lose Power. Stephen Date. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: Re: Subject: [B7L] Another fanfic
by una＠q-research.connectfree.co.uk 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Betty wrote: >Una McCormack wrote: > >> Perhaps Avon could then torture Garak? > >Garak would laugh at him. Yes, yes he would! >Actually, come to think of it, I think I'd *like* to see that. Me too! >(And, yes, yes, Una, I *know*...) I didn't even *think* it... ;) Una

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Re: [B7L] A whole new wave of classic old B7 zines...
by Sally Manton 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Leah wrote: <REFLECTIONS IN A SHATTERED GLASS by Joe Nazarro (1989 - Legendary artwork by Suzie Lovett)> Oh yes I've got this - one of the first zines I bough in fact. Very silly story (IMHO only) but I'd buy it again *just* for the pictures, the cover especially is gorgeous. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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