Blakes7 January 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

46 participants
116 discussions

Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 01 Feb '01

01 Feb '01

Wendy wrote: <That's your interpretation, not necessarily Terry Nation's. It seems to me that you are reinterpreting a disturbing scenario to make it more comfortable for yourself.> Agreed that Terry Nation wrote a sexist plot, but what has that to do with it? That's like saying Paul Darrow played Avon as a silly psychpathic macho Dirty Harry so that's what *we have* to see Avon as. No we don't. As the viewer, I have the perfect right to read into any episode anything I see, or indeed anything I want/choose to, as long as I can back it up with evidence. After all, you're interpreting it to make it considerably blacker than I do (ps - this is how character discussions get tangled up too :-)) which is your right, but I agree with Neil about not seeing your Freudian overtones. So what? You do, and you're allowed to. <You are saying that she is in control and almost assured,yet subservient!> She's comfortable - he's most definitely *not*. She's falling at his feet and calling him Lord - but *he's* the one doing what *she* wants, remember. Everything is being done *in accordance with her plan*. (Avon says that his arrival is a 'poor reward' - Gan flat out tells her that they're just men. Meegat is not listening, and why should she?) <This again is your interpretation, but however you interpret it, the fact remains that Avon goes along with it.> Of course. After all - 1. They're on a radiotive, lethally dangerous world, she's only helped them because she thinks he's/they're her 'gods'. If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't risk too much disillusionment in case I lost that help. 2. They're trying to work out what she wants them to do for her (i e they're trying to help her). To do that, they need the full story, to get that they need her trust. 3. As said above, once they do have the story straight, Gan does try to disillusion her. She doesn't hear what she doesn't want to. And you could say that to destroy the illusion she's given her life to - when they're going to be out *of* that life in a number of years - is sheer cruelty. 3. Yes, it's flattering. But remember Blake's last line (and Blake knows his Avon very well). "I don't like the responsibility either." Avon may have found the worshipping flattering (who wouldn't - and be honest, you lot!!) but the whole thing made him unconfortable as well (he's rather taken aback by someone who thinks he's even more wonderful than (he* does!!) <And how exactly did you figure that, considering that he didn't write in any suggestion at all that she was supposed to go up with it?> I *said* he screwed it up. Our Heroes don't do things like that <g> <Again, I don't follow. It would be equally fair to infer (and make a bit more sense, given that nobody seems to have any problems with it) that she was left behind without a second thought.> That *doesn't* make any sense to me, because it's totally unlike them all. There's no more evidence of your interpretation than mine, and it makes far more sense given the characters involved. <Since there is no evidence for that, it sounds again more like you're trying to make the story sound less disturbing for yourself.> Did you miss the <g>? That one was a *joke* (Blake and Gan would have insisted on *having* her out on the flight deck - Vila too, but for his own invidious reasons). My own opinion is - as said - she and the others didn't want to leave. The episode is silly in a lot of ways, but I still like it for Avon's decidedly un-godlike embarrassment, Vilakins' teasing and Gan's noble refraining from teasing. It's a character-junkie episode. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Just a quick question... or two... or three
by M 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Firstly Calle I seem to have a problem, I seem to be getting messages in the wrong order - eg a reply to a message before that message - thereby getting a little confusing. Is anyone else finding this ??!! Secondly ditto convention virgin and I think I can come to Redemption - thereby similar question as asked before, whats there, whats it like, what do you do etc... M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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RE: deliverance (Imipak)
by M 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

48 posts, wow I never thought I'd get through them - 1) deliverance - I dont think its sexist. I think Avon's the most obvious dominant/ lord like of them and consequently she picks him. Jenna isnt there, so that isnt an issue. They are not flying the rocket, but are ground control, aka computers aka Avon. OK she gets a bit too - my lord (gushing). But I see it as a kind of religion where the deciples follow a mythos, thereby she meets her 'gods' kind of. We see this in Cygnus. Jenna isnt weak, just cant fight loads of hairy primitives, neither could the others, they hide in the bunker. Also we get to see Avon failing in his first assignment as boss - look at his earlier statement to Blake about doing better and then when Jenna is caught, Avon's guilt sets in/ or feeling of failure perhaps. He seems eager to go back to a hostile situation. Thereby the character is already shown as a potential replacement for Blake once his conscious has grown (I wont say appeared because I dont believe this). 2) IMIPAK - daft suggestion, but maybe it didn't kill Travis because it was as confused as the rest of us about his changing appearance. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Wendy wrote: >No, sorry Neil but Deliverance is far moremisogynistic than Power. >In Deliverance Meegat istotally subservient to Lord Avon. She's incapable >of launching the rocket herself and requires a man to do it. The rocket is >nothing more than a crude metaphorand once the gene bank is launched Avon leaves her, to die presumably. I saw Meegat as a joke intended largely to humanise Avon. The more misogynistic part of the episode was Jenna's capture and her inability to escape without rescue from three men. Tavia

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Deliverance
by Stephen Date 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

In response to Mistral's perceptive comments: At the time Deliverance was shown Avon was not the black clad ubermensch we came to know and love...well know anyway...and Jenna had not gone from tough independent space pilot to teleport operator and easily captured victim. (Deliverance may be debateable - The Keeper and Countdown aren't). It could therefore be argued that criticisms of Jenna's treatment in Deliverance are really criticisms of developments that happened in the second season. Nonetheless, Space Flight is Jenna's field of expertise. (In Time Squad Blake takes her over to examine the archaic (sub-light) space vessel, about which she is well informed. There is nothing to suggest that Avon is an expert in archaic methods of Space Travel until he suddenly becomes an expert in Deliverance. Time Squad also shows Jenna teaching the others how to fly the Liberator - she is obviously much more than just a space shuttle pilot). The fact that it is given to Avon in this episode whilst she is tucked away in a tent, presages the much worse things to come. IMO at least. Stephen. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Alison Page 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

I'm not particularly *trying* to be annoying by saying this - but aren't both of those positions rather extreme? Deliverance does rather lazily use gender cliches. I think B7 is somewhat flawed by laziness of writing and plotting, mixed up with the good stuff. I don't think it's enough to say 'well, a male priest would have grovelled just like Meegat did'. because showing an innocent awed man grovelling at Avon's feet (or Jenna's) would have been less dull, less safe, and less cliched. The writer didn't think of it, or didn't choose to do that. Similarly, the plot could have had Jenna showing greater competence, and rescuing herself, but it didn't rise above the conventional enough. On the other hand - I don't think it is *that* offensive as an episode. It's just lazy and dull in so far as it sticks to the bland conventions of adventure stories. Alison

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Zine library at Redemption
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Dear all, I'm once again running the zine library at Redemption. The idea of the library is that people get the opportunity to read zines which have now gone out of print or are not easily available. If you have out of print or any other zines that you would be willing to lend to the library for the weekend, do contact me. The library is only open when there is a steward present, and readers are asked to leave their bags and food and drink outside. No zines are allowed outside the library. I am lending my own set of very rare 1980s zines and newsletters, so these precautions work in my interest too! <g> Contact me offlist if you are willing to help, Una

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Re: Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Stephen Date wrote: >P.S. And how thick am I for not realising until 30 >seconds ago that the episode Shadow was named, not >only after the drug but after the relationship between >the Federation and the TN ? Doh ! Oh... Una

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Re: [B7L] Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Una McCormack 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Harriet wrote: >Do you think people like Ben Steed really exist, then? I think he's Germaine Greer's dark side. Una

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Stefaan Michiels 31 Jan '01

31 Jan '01

Elynne : > > She's incapable of > > > launching the rocket herself > Wendy : >Because she is a helpless woman, looking for a man to >do the proper work. No, because she doesn 't know anything of computers. Looking for somebody who does know anything about it and can get the job done. Elynne : > > It seems safe to assume Meegat's people had some > > males among them, none > > of whom were rocket scientists. > Wendy : >Is there any evidence of this? Not directly. But she did say there were some of them alive. So it seems safe to assume that there were males around. And it seems also safe to assume that they weren 't rocket scientists ( why else wait for some Prince of Darkness on His Black Horse from space to do it? ) Wendy : >Anyway I don't see that >this changes anything. Like ELynne already said : that would make all of them as helpless as Meegat, regardless of being male or female. Elynne : > > No, she requires a rocket scientist - or pilot, or > > engineer, or whizzo > > computer freak. Wendy : >Yes but in the end the author didn't chose Jenna, he >chose Avon to perform the act. Seems logical enough since the athor introduced him as the computer expert in "SPACE FALL". Wendy : > > The rocket is nothing more than a crude metaphor > > Elynne : > > Er, it's just possible the rocket looked like a > > rocket because that's > > what rockets look like, isn't it? I don't recall > > Freud being hired as a consultant for NASA. Wendy : >No. The author used a rocket because it looked like a >giant phallus. You're are confusing fiction with real >live again. The ship didn't have to be a rocket at That would also explain perfectly why "DUEL" was set in a forest. Now, On the one hand you have the image of an author who is thinking "hmm, how can I get this people from one planet to another??? .... I 've got it : a rocket!!!! Brilliant!" On the other hand you have an author thinking "How can I be as sexist as possible? .... Got it. I am going to let them move to another planet and then I can use a ROCKET to do it with. Brilliant!!!!" I don 't see why the first point of view should be less plausible than the second. Elynne : > > I grant you that Avon is suffering radiation > > poisoning and that quickly > > leaving and getting the needed medicine must rank > > pretty high so, no, I > > don't think he hung around too long after. Wendy : >Interestingly misremembered here. Avon doesn't know >he's got radiation poisoning until the next episode. Maybe misremebered. But they did know there was a dangerous level of radiation, so sick or not, you would want to get out of there as soon as possible. And about leaving Meegat behind : Why are we all assuming that the radiation is as dangerous to meegat as it is to Our Heroes? Since her people have lived on that planet for a long time, they probably have adapted to it somehow. Stefaan _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 January 2001