Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Thread hijacking (was Re: Sally-speak)
by Ashton7＠aol.com 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/21/01 3:03:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, ragan(a)sdc.org writes: << So I honestly, truly, don't understand why people get annoyed about it (well, except when the subject lines don't get changed, which I fully understand can be annoying). Somebody explain why it bothers people, please, so I know what I should avoid doing... >> Yes, I have the same exact question. I, too, have seen complaints about "thread hijacking" elsewhere and I never understood it there, either. Everyone on this list has the ability and the right to a) make posts b) respond to posts or c) ignore/delete posts. If someone responds to a post, taking the conversation in a different direction... and more people respond to THAT direction than the original direction, then obviously the changed direction was of more interest to more people. So, frankly, the conclusion I came to on the other list where I saw these complaints is that some people were annoyed that the attention had shifted from *them* and their ideas/points/conversation/whatever to someone else. As Betty pointed out, there's no reason why the original conversation can't continue... unless it is simply for lack of interest by enough list members *to* continue it. Annie

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addition at Redemption
by Steve Rogerson 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Joe Nazarro has kindly agreed to step in to replace Ron Thornton's main guest talk. Joe will be talking about new shows being made in the US and is bringing some slides and video footage with him. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] Re: Brit-char-speak
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/20/01 7:37:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, avona(a)jps.net writes: << The culture does show through, in more than just the accents. It is part of the show's appeal to me, really. Reserve, dignity, and showing respect are worthy qualties, and much maligned in modern America. My husband has guessed that he prefers British comedy to American because people like Tom and Barbara Good, Mr. Humphries, etc struggle to maintain a certain amount of dignity in often ludicrous situations, whereas on shows like 'Friends', there's no sense of restraint of any kind. >> I suppose everything's relative to the circumstances of the viewer. Quite a few US viewers adore British shows because they are simply 'different'. The people, the settings, the culture are all far enough off-center to be conprehensible but alien. I'm well aware that these shows have their own cliches, but those cliches are completely *different* from the set we've been watching on American TV for decades, so they seem fresh. And many of the British shows lack the American producer's obession for using nothing but actors and characters who are just past puberty, or as young and emaciated as they can possibly manage. I don't mind if my shows feature characters I can more easily identify with because their shapes and ages are more like the average person; the Roj Blakes, Diana Trents, Hyacinth Buckets, Mrs. Slocums, Jeffrey Ballards, Rene Artois, Dr. Who, Alex Callendars, Lionel and Jean Hardcastle and all the rest. In order for an older performer to be in the lead on an American show nowadays, he/she often has to hang around long enough to grow into it. That, or be the main character's boss or parent. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: Brit-char-speak
by Ashton7＠aol.com 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/21/01 3:58:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Plenty of reserve, dignity, and respect there, I'm sure you'll agree. >> Well, I wasn't going to say anything... but what he said. I take exception to the statement that the British have more "reserve, dignity and respect" than Americans. Talk about a broad generalization! I love visiting England and I think it's a wonderful country... and there are many things about it that are much better (in my eyes) than America... but the reverse is also true. There are many things *here* in American that are better than in other countries, including England. And "reserve, dignity and respect" exists in both countries (not to mention many other countries, as well). Of course, there are those models of British reserve, dignity and respect on Red Dwarf we can always point to... ;-) *Are* the Blakes 7 characters "British"? Well, personally, I don't think so. At least not all of them. If we follow that train of thought than the vast majority of spacegoers in the Star Trek Federation universe are *American*. The vast number of humanoids *and* aliens on Babylon 5 are mostly *American*. Even Xena and Hercules were *American* because, although the actors aren't American and the show isn't filmed in America, the actors mostly speak with American accents for an American audience. In fact, many "American" shows are now filmed in Canada. So, Scully and Mulder and the whole FBI must have been Canadian! (They are now "American" because the show moved operations to LA, I believe.) Hmmm, Farscape is filmed in New Zealand, isn't it? So, are all of the characters on Farscape originally from New Zealand? Even if we want to extrapolate that many of the B7 characters were meant to be "British" in the far future, who's to say that the *behavior* of people that far in the future will be the same when it comes to emotions or *anything*? Hundreds of years ago in England, did people think and talk the same way that they do today? And taking it even further, just how much of the characters' lives did we get to see? Not much, really. This is why so many fans find fan fiction appealing in the first place: the ability to take the characters and the situations in different directions and to explore all different kinds of things, including emotions. It seems to really bother some British fans when American fans want to participate in the fandom in this manner and I can only say sorry. A fan is a fan and if they feel motivated to write in their danged old American way, too bad. Don't read American fan fiction if it really bugs you that much. Annie

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Lost guest at Redemption
by Steve Rogerson 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

I'm sorry to announce that due to pressure of work Ron Thornton will not be coming to Redemption. This is a blow so close to the event as it makes it virtually impossible to find a replacement. All the other guests are ok though. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Hurt/comfort, a theory
by Helen Krummenacker 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

I was just thinking over the question of, why Hurt/Comfort if not S/M (the most obvious explanation being, apparently wrong) and I think I may have a handle on it-- practitioners tell me if thhis expalnation seems to suit. When we see someone hurting, we generally want to comfort them. It's one of the nicer instincts within human nature. Most of the characters on B7 are walking wounded in one way or another: we know primarily of the emotional wounds of Blake and Avon, and can basically guess at Vila's (he's got 'bullied' written all over him). We see Tarrant Cally and Dayna go through some big traumas. So there is an impulse to 'help them'. Problems involved being, you-the-writer can't do it strictly within canon; the stories where they are traumatized are over and done with. You could potentially write an AU where Avon and Cally hold hands and drink tea post CoA-RoD and develop a bond of trust that enables him to talk to her *before* Terminal... but that is AU. Likewise Blake and Avon having heart-to-heart chat post Voices where the barriers fall. Comfort means trust, and there isn't enough trust on screen, so the solution is to create an original plot. This original fanfic then, must reopen wounds or cause fresh ones: hurt/comfort requires a fresh hurt to motivate the characters. There has to be a new vulnerability. Therefore the writers of Hurt/Comfort aren't interested as much in hurting him as they are in creating a motive for the Comfort. The new Hurt is merely a substitute for the Canonical hurt the writer really wants to comfort. Okay, there is the Beautiful Suffering thing, but as said by afficianadoes, that is based on the dignity and strength he shows on screen. As I have pointed out, this is akin to admiring the courage of Oedipus in pressing to learn a truth he has been told will destroy him in a classic play; the tears of Mary holding Jesus in the statue Pieta; or any art that makes us admire how the human spirit can bear up abainst pain. Admiration of spirit may be translated into desire, but this is a process than sadism.

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The Mark of Kane
by Andy Hopkinson 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

This is in fact from Alan Stevens... The Blake's 7 Audio tape "The Mark of Kane" has now come to the end of its run. The price of colour printing of the cassette in-lays is prohibitively expensive, which means I'm afraid, that this tape will soon no longer be available for sale. The good news is that Judith Proctor does still have around eight copies in stock, and these (autographed by various members of the cast, including Gareth Thomas, Brian Croucher and Peter Miles) will be on sale at Redemption. As for The Avon club, they have two! Of course, all tapes can also be ordered from the above via their respective websites. Would someone please copy this to the Freedom City list. Thanks for all the fish. Alan

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Re: [B7L] More penguins
by Sally Manton 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Joanne, re The Lystian Mascot ... <This time, it's a calendar over a colleague's desk, showing eight of the darn things. Una, Neil, speak severely to the powers that be, will you?> and Una: <There are two on my calendar, with their backs to me. They really are out of control.> Actually, I have a couple of zine with cartoons - can't recall who by - Blake as a sort of Biggles-figure and Avon *as a penguin*. Being less than later in my thinking, I never did guess who the rabbit stoof for ... Could this be where the connection between B7 and large flightless birds actually came from? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Wendy's complaint (was Sally-speak)
by Marian de Haan 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Wendy wrote: >And when someone suggests that the episode might not have been written with that intention, they appear to become furious.< In view of the Deliverance debate this sounds rather amusing. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Wendy-speak (was Sally-speak)
by Marian de Haan 21 Feb '01

21 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: >I mean, if I'd come on the list and said "I find issues of gender and sexuality in Deliverance, especially with regard to Avon's conduct in Meegat's presence, occasionally questionable," would anyone have responded at all? Whereas Wendy's post, using provocative words like "sexism," got people talking about the wider issues.< I would have responded exactly the same as I responded to Wendy's question, by asking: "In what way?" And maybe you would not have replied with the patronising "Are you kidding?", implying that I must be terribly dim not to see what's so apparent to you. :-) You're right, though - the way in which one says something can be as important as what is actually said. Marian

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Blakes7 February 2001