Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Excalibur vs B7 fanfic
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <For one thing, I like violent movies (as opposed to IRL).> This is a point that could help here - I *don't*, in fact, I hate graphic film violence, even the not-too-graphic stuff can give me the jitters - Blake being shot, for instance, even if you take out my liking for the character. If fanfic h/c fantasies were on film, I have not the slightest doubt that I'd have the remote out and changing channel so fast it would make your head spin. One of the things I do enjoy in Blake-centred fanfiction is emotional/mental/spiritual hurt (which is, I think you will all agree *extremely* canonical). And there's no doubt that a lot of fans (not all) love Rumours for the emotional torture that Avon goes through (and he does this par excellence in PGPs as well). And - without being flippant - there *is* the fact that Avon-dumping does have strict rules about, in Neil's term 'sanitising' the violence - 'he stays pretty' in the words of a drinking game I once saw. In fanfic it's different to film and RL in that the reader can edit the exact balance of physical to emotional violence, and - though I have read some graphic stuff - it is true that the physical harm is mostly a backdrop for the emotional trauma. In a very real way - because it's *words*, not *images* - it's not real violence.* And emotional trauma is after all a staple of drama anyway ... Yes, I've seen artistic renditions of Avon having been hurt, but again, it is *art*, not film - a drawing, however beautifully done (hi, Val!) not a photo. So one *can* ignore the RL implications and concentrate on the fantasy. Does this all make sense to anyone? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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prejudices (was Sally-speak)
by Marian de Haan 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Wendy wrote: >The answer to all your prejudices against Tarrant is to stop reading bad fanfic.< *All* my prejudices against Tarrant? You mean my seeing him as a character with some flaws among his virtues? If that's your definition of prejudice then I have a lot of prejudices against all the characters, especially Avon. :-) Marian

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Re: [B7L] fannishness
by Ellynne G. 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

On Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:28:42 -0800 Mistral <mistral(a)centurytel.net> writes: > I'm having trouble maintaining any interest in Xena since Joxer died > (Joxer being a bit of a cross between Vila and Jarriere). Glad I'm not alone on this. Although I was also getting tired of some of the more weird storylines (Xena's daughter and the Twilight of the Gods is just . . . painful). As for armor - In civilizations where weapons haven't been invented that make armor obsolete, armor is a good thing to have in battle. Some Celts did wear armor but it was generally expensive and hard to come by. They did use protective runes that probably had some psychological benefit but, theological issues aside, that was it. Greek armor came from a period when the moveable joints design had yet to be introduced. It protected major organs, but blood loss and beheading were still issues (skipping all those spears going through all those breatplates in the first bit of the Illiad). Leather skirts, particularly with some metal overlay, could help protect the lower body without overly hindering movement. Leather, in and of itself, offered more protection than cloth (point to remember in its practical, B7 application. The characters may not have like all the skinned knees they were getting following fearless leader over cliffs, quarries, etc). Then, there are people who may or may not have limited metal resources but who didn't seem to have gotten to much into body armor before bullets were introduced. Enough said. As for Xena, the question is why, if she wears armor at all, she wears armor that doesn't seem to protect much. Also, why do _men_ in her culture wear armor that does? There are two competing theories. 1) Xena and other warrior women belong to a mutant strain of humanity who keep their major organs in rather odd, compact spaces and who have arteries and veins with shut off valves that make bleeding to death less of a concern. Note: this is a sex linked mutation. While Conan seems to have inherited it, few other males have. Or, 2) They have found the distraction effect of dressing this way has on their (usually male) opponents gives them a significant edge in battle that outweighs the costs. This would also explain why few homely or even average looking women become warriors. If it's 1, Mutoids may have a similar condition, explaining why more are female. Actually, the trait seems common in many people who decide to become rebels or such, given the bizarre frequency with which otherwise competent marksmen fail to injure them significantly, making yet another way Blake might have survived. If his organs are where Xena's are, it was only a flesh wound. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/20/01 12:30:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, calle(a)lysator.liu.se writes: << Why? I found it quite good when I read it. Not perfect, of course, but there seemed to be a lot of good thinking in it. >> Jenkins wasn't regarded as 'bad'; his work just came across as as a bit pretentious and his theories were sometimes spot on, sometimes way out in left field, and sometimes from another planet. It was never given much weight as a whole, because he often generalizes when almost every fan has different motivations and inspiration than every other fan on almost everything (one only has to hang out on a typical mailing list for a few days to discover this). Read from beginning to end, you often spot areas where his conclusions seem to be drawn on thin sampling of the fannish milieu in general. I suppose Jenkins was trying to isolate a phenomenon which might be a bit more universal than any of us suppose. Leah

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Re: Excalibur vs B7 fanfic
by Helen Krummenacker 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

> Er, if I recall correctly, the woman isn't actually wearing anything... > > Okay, it's silly. But how can you write off this beautiful pre-Raphaelite > movie on the basis of one silly scene in over two hours when you're a fan of > a series with at leas How can you complain about women writing about Avon Suffering (NOT my preference in fanfic, either), but love a movie where a woman is raped by a man wearing spikey armour and making it, thereby, even worse? And call it beautifully Pre-Raphaelite? I love pre-Raphaelite paintings, but they focus on the moments of romance or religion rather than violence.

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Ashton7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 2:58:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, avona(a)jps.net writes: << Reason 5 mundanes don't get into fandom-- when you describe anything we do, it tends to sound extremely pathetic. It's knowing the fans that makes it all worth while. >> About as pathetic as grown men and women wandering around hitting a tiny ball with a stick (golf) or chasing a slightly bigger ball around a concrete "court" (tennis) or rolling a great big heavy ball down a wooden corridor (bowling) or chasing a little ball up and down a field (football). Just about *any* hobby can sound pathetic to those who aren't interested in it. Some people like to catalog insects (B7 reference! <g>) and others like to catalog things in their favorite tv show. Where's the difference? Annie

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Re: What makes a fannish show? (was Re: [B7L] fannishness)
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

After I wrote: <Has anyone else seen a little Danish show called 'The Kingdom'?> Calle answered: <Original title "Riget", yes?> Could be - definitely Ernst-Hugo Järegård was the lead and yes, he'd made a great B7 guest (even better Kayn than Kayn). It was odd - the show seriously squicked me at least once every twenty minutes and yet I just couldn't stop watching ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: What makes a fannish show? (was Re: [B7L] fannishness)
by J MacQueen 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

>From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net> >Actually, reading those 9 points makes me think of two central characters I >mentioned above - Jack Frost and Inspector Morse. Two central characters >who have not generated anything like a prominent fandom, nor indeed any >active fandom at all that I know of (my mother is an avid watcher - and >reader - of both, and can't imagine anyone wanting to write their own Frost >fic or Morse fic. Give them time, Neil. I can't imagine Dalziel and Pascoe fanfic either, but they've run out of Reginald Hill books to dramatise, and if that state continues and "divorces" the characters from their print originals, you might see such things. Morse fic, seeing as his creator has killed him off, might be less likely, but a B7 fan isn't going to see problems with fans of other shows writing about "untelevised" or alternate stuff, is he/she? Had I the words this morning, I'd mention those ETV shows that have cast sizes that are a bit too large to be able to say with certainty that here is a lead character, let alone a lead character that fits all or most of Susan's list. But the office is in chaos this morning, due to reorganisation of seating arrangements, and I'm a bit too distracted. Regards Joanne (who bought those issues of ETV that were available, and wondered where the magazine had disappeared to...) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Ashton7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/20/01 12:30:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, calle(a)lysator.liu.se writes: << >>>>> "Ashton7" == Ashton7 <Ashton7(a)aol.com> writes: > I'm starting to find the constant references to Jenkins' > book...well, strange. When it first appeared in fandom, yea many > years ago now, it was regarded as somewhat of a joke in most fannish > circles Why? I found it quite good when I read it. Not perfect, of course, but there seemed to be a lot of good thinking in it. >> I didn't say it wasn't "good". I said it was joked about. So was Camille Bacon-Smith's book, Enterprising Women. I'm only finding the quotes from Jenkins' book odd because it sounds like he's being given the weight of a Joseph Campbell... which he ain't. Annie

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Re: What makes a fannish show? (was Re: [B7L] fannishness)
by Penny Dreadful 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

(whoops, sent this to "blake7@ etc. (no "s") for some reason) At 02:27 PM 2/17/01 -0500, Susan Beth wrote: >I >don't think I've heard of a game show based fandom, but it wouldn't >surprise me to learn there was one or two out there. "Iron Chef" is classified as a game show by TV Guide, and definitely has what I would call a "fandom" (celebrity stalking, drinking games, eternal flamewars...), including fan-fiction (including a B7 crossover by myself, ObB7 ;-p). -- "These must be T.V. potatoes." --The Inn Chef

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Blakes7 February 2001