Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Ashton7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 11:36:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, j_macqueen(a)hotmail.com writes: << From: Ashton7(a)aol.com >Henry was/is a nice guy. But, he's just a guy with an opinion, ya know, <Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> Henry's just zis guy, you know? </Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> >> LOL. Got me. Annie

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Re: [B7L] Was it something I said :-)
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <Well, you should have made the most of your chances a year ago, when I was offering free hugs to anyone who asked.> Perhaps I'm shy. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Patriarchy (Was: Deliverance)
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/16/01 6:17:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Quite a few episodes featured male guests but no female ones. Prize winners here are Harvest of Kairos and Traitor, each having eight speaking male guest parts and no female ones at all. >> Interesting research on B7's stats. I'd like one further refinement; a count of B7 episodes where a female character was the focal point of the plot. I actually think the dearth of females on B7 overall comes from an earlier BBC production belief that Science Fiction shows are primarily of interest to young male viewers, and that the girls don't go for that sort of thing. So more male characters were present for the viewers to identify with. Nowadays, with the frantic pandering to the adolescent/teen-age male demographic, many producers can't put enough 'babes', butt-kicking or otherwise, in the forefront. This demographic has proven to have the least sales resistance, so advertisers are clamoring for more vehicles to hawk their products on directed toward this demographic. At least, that's what's going on in the US. Leah

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Re: [B7L] fannishness
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Dana: <You're on record about Cally though.> and Neil: <Not a central character, not even a second lead. Now you're moving your own goalposts. Stop it - that's my tactic.> I think it's a fair one, though. There's the Tarrant Nostra - would their members go on record as having an interest in 'Interesting and/or attractive protagonists', even though Toothy is neither central nor second lead? (well, not IMHO - for 3rd/4th season, Vila is). Then there's the Servie fans ... Is there anyone out there who *does* watch B7 or another show at least partly (and large-part, please) for one of the minor characters, with little interest in the majors? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Ashton7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 6:16:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, bragan(a)aoc.nrao.edu writes: << IIRC, Jenkins had a hypothesis about that. >> I'm starting to find the constant references to Jenkins' book...well, strange. When it first appeared in fandom, yea many years ago now, it was regarded as somewhat of a joke in most fannish circles, if I'm remembering correctly. It certainly wasn't something that B7 fans (or any fans) took as some sort of fannish "bible." Many of us were interviewed for the book (I think Leah and I are in there... I know that Leah's artwork is in there). Henry was/is a nice guy. But, he's just a guy with an opinion, ya know, like the rest of us. I believe that, at the time, he was doing his thesis. I've seen other fans do the same thing as a way to combine their love of fandom with their scholarly career. Right now, I know several people who teach film history in schools and/or universities who like to use their favorite shows (like Alias Smith & Jones, as one example I know about) as classwork! Annie

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 8:33:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, bragan(a)aoc.nrao.edu writes: << I do remember writing a few essays about _Star Trek_ and _Doctor Who_ for my English classes. My high school teacher didn't quite know what to make of it, but my college prof was actually impressed. : >> The final 'paper' for my college scriptwriting class required an hour-long screenplay, complete with camera shots and all the bells and whistles. I said the hell with it, wrote a script that was essentially a fanfic about my favorite movie series at the time (The Man With No Name from the Spaghetti Westerns), and was stunned when I got an A plus. The script became the first story in my first fanzine, WIDE OPEN SPACES #1 in 1976. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 5:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, rilliara(a)juno.com writes: << On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:32:47 EST Ashton7(a)aol.com writes: > Just about *any* hobby can sound pathetic to those who aren't interested in it. > Some people like to catalog insects (B7 reference! <g>) and others like > to catalog things in their favorite tv show. Where's the difference?<< >It's in the explanations. When I went through and counted every time Vader in the novel version of Star Wars used a name or title to address someone or speak of them, I said it was for literary analysis in the evaluation of character motivation*. That way, it was a good thing.< Sounds better than the sports fan who can proudly and seriously quote to you the averages of a player or team down to the last decimal, for the past few decades. Mundanes often regard one as 'childish, stupid trivia' while the latter is 'authoritative sporting enthusiasm'. We have to stop apologizing for our fannishness. We have nothing to apologize for. Well--okay, maybe for some of the most lurid purple prose, but even the greatest sportsmen get gutterballs. Leah If I'd been doing it just because I was obsessive compulsive about a show, _that_ would mean I had a problem. So, it's perfectly all right to know how many times Avon wore a particular outfit and under what circumstances if you add something about it's telling symbolism for his character (ie, did he wear it because he liked it or because he couldn't be bothered to pay attention to what he grabbed out of the closet in the morning?). Ellynne *If there's anyone who wants to know, Vader almost completely avoided anything that wasn't a pronoun when he could. He made an exception for Tarkin and Ben, although he never used a title with Tarkin (his nominative superior), although Tarkin and Kenobi broke even for nonpronoun forms of address (four out of seven, I think [but it depends on how you rate 'Old man' (insulting? familiar? synonym for father figure?)]). The big exception was Princess Leia. Vader used either a respectful form of her name, a title, or a formal form of address (although, like Han, he wasn't above making 'your highness' derogatory) nearly 80% of the time. As she was the only woman we see on the Death Star, pronouns wouldn't have been too confusing. From a character POV, that has interesting implications for how Vader viewed her. Of course, one could always argue the _writer_ did this because the audience was supposed to think of her as a person and the nameless imperial thugs as nameless imperial thugs. >>

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

> >Not to > >mention medical drama based fandoms, sitcom based fandoms, and so on. > > I don't doubt that such fandoms exist, but they are probably peripheral > compared to the SF/fantasy scene. We have several magazines catering for > telefantasy fans >> Look before you leap. Not only is the unlikely category of soap opera fandom enormous, but if you check online, you'll find that very extensive amounts of fanfic are being written about them. As an example, just type in "fan fiction" in your favorite search engine and see what comes up, particularly if you put in such particulars as GENERAL HOSPITAL or other popular daytime shows, or the names of some of the major characters. I would have thought like you--that an ongoing, long-term soap opera that unfolds daily would have no room for fanfic. I was very wrong. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by J MacQueen 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

I tried to resist, I really did. >From: Ashton7(a)aol.com >Henry was/is a nice guy. But, he's just a guy with an opinion, ya know, <Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> Henry's just zis guy, you know? </Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> I think that's my coat hanging up on the floor over there... Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Sally-speak
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

I think this has gone past a joke. Quite simply, being called worthless crap hurts. I have tried not to get upset at what feels like a very personal - and what certainly was an extremely vitriolic - attack (sneering at the way I speak - my personality rather than my views - being rather a different matter to disputing the way we interpret an episode) Wendy's comments about 'sickening crap' and Carol and Shane's approval thereof have struck a very painful nerve. I've been assuming for two years that people took my 'Fearless Leader', 'My Darling', etc, the burbles sending up the sillier aspects of the show and splattering capitals and generally having a bit of fun with the characters and the show as just that - fun, and had the sensitivity to discriminate between that and my serious comments. I thought some people enjoyed the humour in it, that most of you got a laugh out of it sometimes; the idea that I've been imposing, and no one's been impolite enough to tell me that they were nauseated by my style of prose has upset me, since there's not a lot I can do about it. I can't turn into someone else because Wendy loathes the way I think (from the Deliverance thread) and the way I phrase those thoughts (now). I'm sorry if this makes anyone uncomfortable, but again, I can only ask those who hate the way I write so much to killfile. And can they drop the subject of my worthlessnss as a poster based on my stomach-churning style of prose, please? Sally _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 February 2001