Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >*Anything* can be dull to read, if it's written badly enough. >Conversely, almost anything can be interesting to read, if >it's written in the right way. Even a story about watching >paint dry could be made to work if it was about Avon's >thoughts as he watched it drying out. (I'm not saying it would >be easy to write, or that it would turn out a deathless classic, >just that a perfectly readable story could be made out of the >classic epitome of boredom.) 'The Mezzanine' by Nicholson Baker is worth reading for insight into what a good writer can do with unpromising material. A reasonably interesting novel about one man's lunch hour. >As to the SF, a lot depends on how you define it. I would say any fiction >set in a hypothetical future is more or less SF of a kind by default. >But that leads on to the thorny problem of 'What *is* SF?' for >which there are no easy answers. There's generally some thought that one ought to be exploring the changes in science and technology, either directly or their effects on society or individuals. I would say that I don't write science fiction (even if I write in the B7 universe), though I enjoy reading it. >If you don't know about it, don't write about it. That's >why there's never any sex in my stories:) And I only ever write bad sex... A degree of imagination appears to be called for? Or even perhaps research? None of us live in the B7 universe (thankfully), none of us actually are Blake, Avon and crew, so there's got to be some imagination somewhere in all B7 fic. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/14/01 3:45:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << From: <Bizarro7(a)aol.com> > What seems to make a TV show "fannish" usually > involves the chemistry between the basic milieu, the character's visual > presence and portrayal and the writing. > I tend to go for Jenkins' theory, that fandom arises out of the tension generated by an attraction to certain elements of a series and a repulsion from others. Fannishness is generated by a desire to reconcile these opposing forces.< Um....that's exactly what was meant by my use of the metaphor 'chemistry', which involves molecules--which both attract and repulse. For example, the 'catch' for me in HIGHLANDER has not only been the relationships of attraction, but the one of repulsion between Cassandra and Methos. Further, my comments were addressing what makes a show become 'fannish' to a viewer, where yours were a bit more toward what makes a fan of the show compelled to write fanfic (in an effort to reconcile the opposing forces in a way that is not satisfactorily unresolved in the series ie: PGP epics that eventually reconcile Blake and Avon, etc.) Leah: >> Some people are wired in right-brain, > some left. One side is analytical, the other visual. Your mileage will always > vary.<< >Most people are wired for both left and right, with one side having a slight edge over the other.< Edge = Mileage. We are agreeing, Neil. Those 'slight' differences have actually proven to add up to profound effects on the life and personality of the individual, and what they can and can't do with proficiency. Neil >>

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Earth Mothers
by Dana Shilling 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

If I understand Catholic theology correctly, it would not be correct to identify the Virgin Mary as a "deity," but nevertheless she is a very significant spiritual entity who serves as intercessor, and who is worthy of reverence (although only God is worthy of worship). We also shouldn't forget the distinction between a religion's officially promulgated form and the beliefs and actions of ordinary worshippers-- devotion to the Virgin Mary is very common among both male and female Catholics, I think. In some cases this also has a nationalist aspect, e.g., the devotion to the Virgin of Guada- lupe and Our Lady of Czestochowa. The patron saint of France is St. Joan of Arc, and the unsuccessful French Revolutionary attempt to create a synthetic religion included Goddesses of Liberty and Reason. And Marianne is a kind of secular goddess too. -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character' (and woodlice)
by Tavia Chalcraft 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

Neil again: >I freely admit that the stories I've written were the kind of >fanfic I wanted to read, and only I could write it exactly the >way I wanted. ... I suspect this is true of many fan writers, >perhaps most, maybe even all. I think there may be a skill thing here. I'd rather read (for eg) E'trix, Ika, Penny Dreadful fic, to name just three, than my own stuff. I'd rather write closer to what I'd love to read, but first I need to acquire some talent and some ideas.... Tavia PS I love woodlice, Neil.

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Re: radiation medicines (was Deliverance)
by Helen Krummenacker 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

> Whatever the System thought DSV-1 was supposed to be used for, > it probably went to some awfully dodgy planets. Why didn't they have > whizzo anti-radiation planet exploring outfits on board? I noticed that potential plot hole. Maybe the Altas are created by a process that subjects them to radiation levels that make them immune to most of what they might encounter? Mayb the System planets have no Van Allen belt equivalent and therefore they have developed a natural immunity to radiation? Maybe they *were* stocked up, but that space battle that left the Liberator derelect was fought with nasty weapons that made the crew decide to down lots of anti-radiation meds fast, and take the extra with 'em when they teleported off.

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Re: Women in the Federation
by Helen Krummenacker 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

> Off the top of my head, women in reasonably senior positions in Federation > Civil Admin or military And I certainly hope we won't forget Bartholomew! (snipped stuff about Servalan possibly preferring male subordinates and colleagues) It really wouldn't surprise me. In my personal life, men are more likely to take my ideas and work seriously, whereas women tend to see me as a sidebar to my husband. There are certainly exceptions to that, but there seems to be a subconscious bias for people to be inclined to pay more attention to an attractive person of the opposite sex regardless of how far removed the subject is from anything sexual.

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New zine announcement
by Steve Rogerson 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

Paula Robinson and I have published a zine called: Paula and Steve Go Down the Pub It contains 10 short stories; eight of them have previously appeared on the Freedom City or its predecessor Space City list, though one in a much shorter form, one exists on a web page and the other two are new to the zine. The stories are a mix of humour and horror and include some sexually explicit stuff. We appreciate that it is not everyone's cup of tea. The zine is 38 pages including illos and will sell for Pound1.50. The zine will be initially available at Redemption (during the bring and buy sale) and, depending on sales, it may be available by post later (if necessary we will do a reprint). P&P costs will be 50p within the UK (not worked out how much it'll cost to send overseas yet). -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption: The Blake's 7 and Babylon 5 convention 23-25 February 2001, Ashford, Kent http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: [B7L] earth mothers
by Ellynne G. 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

On Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:45:25 EST Bizarro7(a)aol.com writes: > In a message dated 2/15/01 8:35:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > Your recollection is accurate. "Elohim", the Hebrew word for god, is > actually > plural, which for many anthropologists and historians is evidence of > the > multi-diety origin of Judaism/Christianity. Although the plural can also apparently be used in ancient Hebrew to imply qualities (my knowledge of Hebrew is pretty weak, but I've read a few commentaries that make this point). Hence, using the plural form with god can be intended to imply the vastness of his glory, etc. It should also be noted that this plural form was used for centuries by people who were native speakers and who still accepted this as a singular form in usage. Just one of the other sides of the argument. A lot of long-suppressed > evidence > is starting to surface in the Middle East that the Yawah of the > ancient Jews > had a female counterpart, without whom he could not function; > Ashera. Another tricky point of interpretation. That Ashera/Astoreth was worshipped in the Middle East is not open to question. Astoreth had a clear role in the Baal cult and worship of her is clearly shown as ongoing through much of the Old Testament, but that doesn't necessarily make her an associated cult. Consider parts of Latin America which are Catholic but where you can still find people who will sacrifice a chicken to an Aztec god, or descendents of Mayans have incorporated many of their traditional rituals into Christian ones, a future historian guessing at context could be mightily confused. The > later turn of the faith toward domination by the patriarchs > demonized and > eradicated her, A little fairness, here. There's clear evidence that many of the women taking part in the fertility rituals involved in Ashtoreth worship were underage and/or sold into their role as, essentially, sacred prostitutes. > > Patriarchal religion began to replace the almost universal Goddess > religions > when agriculture and city-states kicked in big time, about 3,000 > years ago. > In multi-god cultures like Greece and Rome, the 'chief' diety became > an > all-powerful male one. It's no coincidence that this was around > about the > time that it became general knowledge, for the first time, that the > male had > a part in the procreation process. I have nothing against goddess worship per se. It's not my own theology, but I can say that about a lot of things. However, there is evidence that points in an opposite direction. Widespread findings of fertility goddess statues is much more common to areas and times where agriculture had caught on. Also, although there actually have been cultures that questioned whether males had a significant role in where babies came from, my understanding id that it's not typical even among diehard hunter-gatherer-nomadic-nonfarming cultures. OTOH, since it's hard to find one of those cultures that existed in complete isolation from farming cultures, I can see room for a difference of opinion, especially since writing is usually an invention of agricultural societies needing record keeping, leaving significant parts of history untold or unclear. Ob. B7 - I won't go into Dawn of the Gods, and Deliverance seems to have been discussed out. Let's just say that, in Aftermath, it's possible the locals saw Dayna as a supernatural entity, bringing into question whether the probably patriarchal local culture had been waiting for a sign that fate would support their going after her (they were awfully quick to go into atttack mode) or whether it was only because she'd come in on the side of the enemy (given their knowledge that her sister was one of them and their treatment of her, 'field day on aliens' may not be all that was going on). Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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earth mothers
by Alison Page 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

Fiona said - >>You're quite right here; offhand I can't think of a single society in which the Earth *isn't* seen as feminine Actually quite a few middle-eastern civilisations had a male earth god, and a female sky god. An example is the ancient Egyptians (where they were called Geb and Nut respectively).Both Saturn and Mars were originally male earth gods. And I have read some very persuasive stuff that one of the two or three tribal gods who were amalgamated to create Yahweh was an earth/fertility god. And remember the Israelites created the golden calf in honour of 'the queen of heaven' - i.e. a female sky god. While many of Yahweh's totemic symbols, such as pomegranates, lambs and doves, were originally mother earth symbols. It's a highly complex area, and I think masculinity and femininity of deities swapped about more than people imagine, and gods 'stole' from each other. It is also sometimes forgotten that in northern European religion the sun was a goddess and the moon a god, while in southern Europe it was of course the other way round. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 15 Feb '01

15 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >There are certainly writers I prefer, largely because they work in a >broadly similar vein to myself. Nickey Barnard has yet to disappoint me. >Alison Page has written what I still consider the best bit of fanfic I have >ever seen. Susan Barrett inevitably wrote well, Russ Massey likewise, >and many others. I should perhaps point out my three were inclusive not exclusive -- essentially the first three names that came into my head looking at TTBA proofs. I'd certainly agree with Nickey and Alison, Alison's YLHC is possibly my favourite ever bit of fanfic and certainly one of the most original. I'd also recommend Neil's stuff pretty highly, though it varies as to being plumb my taste (eg WWotD) or excellent example of something plumb not my taste (eg Hunter). Una should be persuaded to increase her B7 output by judicious praise. I loved 'The Quality of Mercy' in Star4 by Natasa, but I've not seen anything else of hers. And several others who mainly write slash spring to mind. Tavia

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Blakes7 February 2001