Blakes7 February 2001

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

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Feelings in Space (was liking character)
by Stephen Date 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

I suppose if you take this business about wanting to explore the characters feelings too far you could end up with something like this.... The Kerr Avon Diary 14th June 250 N.C. Cigs 0 (v.g.) Glasses of Wine 6 (must stop drinking with Vila) Weight 12 st. (but can still fit into red leather trousers) Blake was totally unreasonable this morning. First he flies us out to the outer edge of the galaxy, then I overheard him gossiping in the teleport with that Stannis woman. Frankly I was tempted to walk out once and for all but thought better of it. Heroically rescued the entire crew from the Federation. Poor darling had been forced to work in a mine and looked very yummy in manner of D.H. Lawrence novel. Did I get any thanks for saving them ? Oh no. I should have stayed with Anna, I could always rely on her. Hmm. On the other hand, perhaps not. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Alison Page 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Annie said - >I can only say again that non-verbal communication does not a good story >make... in fact, under most circumstances, it makes for a stultifyingly >boring story with characters that are next to impossible for the reader to >relate to. > >How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being >"non-verbal." It just doesn't work. > Wow. I honestly believe that there is some vast gulf of what writers and readers want, and that if you are on the other side of it, you just don't understand the other. every single sentiment in what Annie says is the exact *opposite* of what I believe about fiction. But I know that all those statements are true for Annie, and I am grateful to read them so clearly and forthrightly expressed. it has convinced me that people with opposing views will just have to relax about it all, and accept that there will be this whole bunch of stuff they can't ever get on with at all. That applies to both sides. It's as if we are talking a different language: but confusingly a different language with the same words in it :-) I also think there are more fanfic writers with Annie's view. Sad for me - because it means there is less that I like to read, and fewer people who will like what I write. Of course it isn't sad *really* as it means that there is all this stuff being happily read and written, by people who are on exactly the same wavelength. Alison

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Re: subject line goof
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> <awestruck> No, I have nothing to add to this other than declaring it the > winner of the longest subject line that this person has ever seen. > Congratulations, Helen! <grin> > > Regards > Joanne Other people accidentally hit 'reply all'; I copy and paste things into my subject line sometimes. Thought I caught it before I sent it... but given the number of times I have had to correct that before sending, I suppose my average isn't bad. <g>

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:52:42 -0700 Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> writes: > Ashton7(a)aol.com wrote: > > > Exactly! That was my point. You can't write a short story or a > novel the same > > way that a script is written. You can attempt to make the story > "visual," in > > a sense, but if you try to duplicate a script, you're going to end > up with a > > badly written piece of fiction. > If anyone's read the couple of 'new' Agatha Christy novels ("Black Coffee" and something else I forget), they do this a little. There supposed to be adaptations of scripts she wrote, and the characters seem to say things that fit a play but that Christy would normally have left in narration in her books. It can be hard to write when a character's tendencies don't match the author's. A lot of Avon's conversation is supposed to be the briefest route possible to convey the full weight of his scorn, wit, and lack of desire to continue the conversation. Not recommended to the faint of heart or, alas, the long of wind. Ellynne Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: fanfic; proposed zine
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> Do crossovers count? I mean, crossovers without the main B7 characters, > but with the main characters from somewhere else...? > > Kathryn Andersen That should be all right, I think, in that it would keep with the goal of getting less-tried character interactions. I would prefer to see Winston from 1984 than, say, Luke Skywalker; but I would not rule out Luke Skywalker if the writer dealt with getting him there from long ago and a galaxy far away, and then used his empathic abilities to introduce him to Auron society and explore the Auron philosophy. More likely, I suppose would be a submission of "Jenna In Wonderland". I don't see why not, as long as it's either a universe well enough known that the majority of readers will probably 'get it', or conversely, little known, but well handled enough that for all we don't even need to know it's a crossover to understand and enjoy. > (who has an idea, but too many other commitments...) Do tell? Oh, and if anyone sends me a Buffyverse/Blake's7 crossover, I think I'd rather see it go to the specialized realm of Staked Blake. And on the matter of Mary Sues... I don't mind a tough-as-nails, attractive, competent OFC woman in a story. In fact I'd like to see some. Avoid saccharine, and I won't say 'Mary Sue'.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Fanfic
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:00:31 -0700 Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> writes: > Ellynne G. wrote: > > > . . . .Avon's sort of dead. . . . > > *Sort of* dead? How do you manage that? ;) > The story starts from Avon's POV. Only at the end of that scene do you really find out what other characters think has been going on - and it seriously throws into question what's going on with 'Avon.' Then, you switch to another scene taking place at about the same time where Cally has just woken up from a nightmare that seems to give some weight to the Avon POV in the last scene - except she's with Avon (oops, sorry, AU where Cally and Avon are married). Only, this Avon's response to her dream seems to suggest it means more to him than it does to her. Switch to a scene with Soolin. It's PGP and she has hooked up with Grant, who has been leading most of the fighting resistance against the Federation since Blake died (and Albion was overrun). Soolin thinks of Avon as dead - even when he shows up leading Federation forces. Hopefully, if I can ever get past this middle part where I've been stuck for ages, I can prove that these are not all mutually incompatible scenarios (no, no one has been cloning Avon. There has been and can only be one of him). Oh, and a very intelligent alien female (telepathic and gifted with languages) does show up. Nothing else was going to survive through the first chapter in this story. However, maybe the time has come to put her in a coma while the rest of the characters unravel this mess . . . . Like I said, I've been stuck for a bit. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/13/01 11:49:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, ijc(a)bas.ac.uk writes: << This is because a book is like a cake and a script is like a recipe for a cake. A script which actually contained all the worked-out detail of a finished artistic product would look hellishly overwritten, with nothing for the director or performers to do. >> Exactly! That was my point. You can't write a short story or a novel the same way that a script is written. You can attempt to make the story "visual," in a sense, but if you try to duplicate a script, you're going to end up with a badly written piece of fiction. Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Alison Page 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Your point is very well taken Natasa, and perhaps sums up for me why I could never describe myself as a 'character junkie' because I simply don't enjoy reading passages like the imaginary one you gave. >If someone maintains that Vila is a sage behind his clownish mask, that's >fine with me. If the above paragraph were his stream of consciousness, I >don't think I would complain. I think you are being too kind here, though. On the other hand - who knows what people are like 'inside their heads'. I have a problem in that most of what I do inside is non-verbal, which is why I am so often groping for terms and names. However many linguistic philosophers claim that thought is entirely couched in verbal terms, and perhaps this is for them an accurate representation of how they experience their own internal life. Perhaps this explains why people (like me) are so prone to use ellipses, disjointed phrases, repetition etc. Stylistically I am doing it to try to convey in verbal terms a non-verbal experience. Uhh.. I guess. Alison

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Re: (was Deliverance) male and female principles, for lack of a better subject header
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> Earth and water are feminine elements, both for the Chinese and the Celts. > And both cultures may have links. No? I was doing some research on snakes in mythology and their symboloism in Celtic and India lore was reinforced by how strongly similiar the art conventions seemd to be. Prehistoric man was very mobile; I'm not ruling out any cross-cultural influences on account of geography. But I wasn't arguing against Earth-goddess concepts. Just saying that technology/male; environment/female is a traditional dichotomy in the culture we are in. There are also good statistical and historic reasons for technology to be associated with males, but that ignores individual variations. I am Green Party, so obviously I respect the environment. Religiously, I think God or Goddess, no spiritual being has genitalia to worry about. As a metaphor for female empowerment, I do like goddess-figures in artwork.

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Blakes7 February 2001