Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

RE: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Roberts, Patricia ＠ CSE 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

-----Original Message----- From: Harriet Bazley Subject: Re: [B7L] liking 'character' Without knowing the context, this is incredibly difficult, and I'll inevitably make the wrong assumptions about the surrounding plot... but here's my attempt at a more plausible re-rendering, from Vila's point of view. I'm guessing that we're post-Star One here, probably on Gauda Prime. ______________________ This is great! I want more of your "re-rendering", pretty please. Pat

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/13/01 9:56:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, ragan(a)sdc.org writes: << On the other hand, it is entirely possible to go to far in the opposite direction. Some of the things I really like about B7 are the subtlety of the characterizations, the multiple layers of meaning in the things they say to each other, the fact that they *don't* sit around discussing their emotions like touchy-feely Trek characters. In attempting to make everything explicit in dialog, it's very easy to completely ruin all of that, and make the characterizations feel wrong, to boot. It's a difficult balance to achieve, really. >> So the question arises: If BLAKES 7 had begun its existence solely as a SF series in novel form, rather than the screen, would it have had the same impact, on the same people? I'm not sure about that. What seems to make a TV show "fannish" usually involves the chemistry between the basic milieu, the character's visual presence and portrayal and the writing. Some people are wired in right-brain, some left. One side is analytical, the other visual. Your mileage will always vary. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: fanfic; my zine, plus replies to comments on style
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/14/01 10:25:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net writes: << > > How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being > > "non-verbal." It just doesn't work. All right, words are our tools, but the maxim is "show don't tell" when using them. >> Yes, and you can't "show" anything without having the characters BE verbal and providing description, etc. "Show don't tell" really doesn't fit the discussion we're having, imo. This falls into the category of what kinds of verbs (passive or not) an author uses, etc. Annie

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Re [B7L] fanfic
by Neil Faulkner 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

From: Dana Shilling <dshilling(a)worldnet.att.net> > One reason that many actors and directors hate working with a living > playwright who is present at rehearsals is that many a playwright > doesn't WANT there to be anything for the director or performers to > do other than do EXACTLY what the playwright put into the script. > > Maybe that's what being a fanwriter is about? Achieving Hitchcock's > dream of treating actors like cattle because we have total control over > them? Maybe bad stories come about from Mad Character Disease > (which in turn, is caused by what we feed them?) I think this could be pretty close to the truth in some cases. Fan writing is all about appropriating the aired series (Jenkins calls it 'poaching') and making it your own. Fan writers take possession of the setting, the props and above all the characters and set about constructing a definitive interpretation of the source material. We get lengthy and detailed expositions of what the characters are thinking, often rendered into speech - this is the writer taking control of the characters' minds. Reprographic characterisation was mentioned by Tavia (who in turn was apparently citing me). I've generally taken this to be the writer saying, "Look how well I can write the characters" - an act of appropriation. (At the same time, stories written in this way can read like applications for some kind of Brownie Badge. Fan Writer Assignment 2: Write no more than three hundred words capturing the essential qualities of each of the main characters in Season X and exposing the primary manner in which each character interacts with the other. All lines of dialogue must be accompanied by a suitable adverb. Each character must be referred to by a binomial descriptive eg Burly Rebel, Snarly Tech, Little Thief etc. At least one incident from a broadcast episode must be explicitly referred to.) When it comes to description (of people or settings) we usually get next to none, or conversely we get far too much (what I call 'pixel-dot' description), trying to leave absolutely nothing to the imagination. 'Good' writing, on the other hand, is IMO about sharing a vision with the readers, not imposing one on them. 'Good' prose should give the readers enough material for them to construct something that is not entirely their own and not entirely the writer's. Writers should therefore be prepared to restrain themselves when it comes to description, exposition and dialogue. (The series itself does this with the characters - how else do we get so much discussion about their personalities and motivations? We are not told everything, nor should we be.) Leave 'em wanting more! Neil

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/14/01 3:26:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, pennydreadful(a)powersurfr.com writes: << .I speculate that perhaps Annie means it would be very difficult to accurately transcribe "body language", in comparison to speech, as a means of communication...how would you go about writing out the Buster Keaton movie playing in your head (well I know *I've* always got one rolling) to make it ROTFL amusing? Better off converting into a more dialogue-oriented format. "'X,' said Y [Z-ly]" gets the point across succinctly, if not always terrifically aesthetically; where a list of Y's bodily contortions (which in real life or a Buster Keaton movie *could* communicate "X, Z-ly" very efficiently) will have the reader skimming ahead for the next period/paragraph break/dirty word. >> Give yourself a kewpie doll. That's exactly what I meant. ;-) Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/14/01 7:47:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, stephend999(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << Whilst I can appreciate it on a more sophisticated level now, I still watch it primarily because it has danger and space ships. All of which is entirely a matter of taste and if you enjoy B7 primarily because of the interaction of the characters then good for you ! >> I think this is more an indication of the differences in "male" and "female" viewers than anything else. Yes, females can like the action and the science and yes, the males can like the character interaction... but I think you still find that men tend to like one more than the other (on the whole) and that women go for the character interaction, the *emotions*, more than the action. This is one reason that media fandom, overall, and most fan fiction writers in media fandom, tend to be female. I realize there are always exceptions. Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >One thing that leaps out at me from the scripts, now I've had a chance >to look at them, is how short most of the lines of dialogue are. I haven't >done any statistical research on this, but I wouldn't mind betting that if >you calculated an average number of words per speech for a script >and did the same for a story, the story would come out higher. >Perhaps much higher (depending on the author, probably). >Characters in fanfic say a lot more, use longer sentences, are >generally more 'wordy', or at least that's the impression I get. I think this might be partly the difference between action/adventure (as per series) and character drama (as per much fanfic). Also, the series version had expression, action and body posture to go with the words, while fanfic either writes in all this or settles for a more explanatory style of speech. Length of sentence might well depend on the context (pace). >What I find generally irritating is that the regular characters (especi ally, >but oc's often too) are often nowhere near 'tough' enough. I'm wary >of saying this because I don't want to sound like I'm advocating some >kind of macho manifesto, but they are revolutionary fanatics and/or >criminals, habitually doing dangerous things, seeing unpleasant sights, >forced into making snap decisions that might very well lead to someone >else's death at the expense of their own. And in a lot of fanfic this doesn't >come across -their 'inner voices' sound too 'soft' (another word I'm >very uneasy about using), too preoccupied with 'trivial' things (also a >dangerous label), too concerned with the fragility of their relationships >with one another. This, to me, is the hidden hand of Mary Sue, acting >within the characters themselves. A lot of this might come down to inner vs outer voice, ie the difference between tough exterior and less-tough inner. To put it simplistically, I can see Blake watching a massacre he can do nothing to prevent impassively, yet grieving internally. This is also one explanation for the otherwise inexplicable character shifts in Cally -- Cally the Earth Mother (internal) vs Cally the Warrior (external) -- only being female the scriptwriters allow her to express her inner voice externally. >A lot of this may be because many writers are concerned only with the characters, >not with the milieu. They are not interested in action/adventure plots (a lot of >fanfic might be deliberately repudiating the action/adventure ethos and its tropes, >which is why the characters come across the way they do), and not particularly >interested in science fiction either. It was a real culture shock to me, when I >first entered fandom about 9 years ago, to find that an awful lot of fans weren't into >SF as such. I'd be surprised if this didn't affect the way they write the characters. Action/adventure's pretty dull to read, more suitable for the visual. It's a shame there isn't more science fiction in fanwriting, yet there's so little credible science fiction in the series. Less even than Star Trek. Give me grey B7 over shiny happy ST any day, but they do take up the science fiction challenge a bit more seriously, if in the style of Jules Verne or HG Wells than contemporary SF. Not that I know anything about contemporary SF. Tavia

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Re: fanfic; my zine, plus replies to comments on style
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> > If I find the time, I might well develop her for Helen's new zine, but that > would involve working out her character rather more clearly and > differentiating her from me. > > Tavia "Tavia, the Federation citizen/chorus"-- works for me. What challenges does she face? What were her political feelings like a week before the story begins and what are they at the finish? Has the government been using her whiel keeping some secrets from her? (Seems like a common occurence in the B7 universe... in fact, I am working on a theory that the System was created by a secret Federation attempt to take over its three-world space gone wrong) The Everyperson character in a manipulative world is just the sort of thing I'd love to see. I thought I'd sent off the note where I eplained the Gen-slash thing. I don't mind 'adult situations' as the movie industry calls it, if it works in terms of a greater storyline. I myself was criticized in the one Blake's 7 fanfic I wrote of being too graphic in the violence department-- but as Avon was literally in hell, I had taken cue from Dante's Inferno and it wasn't pretty. I can certainly see that a writer who wants to get Vila to be unusually helpful might give him a love affair as incentive. Once again, I'm looking for new approaches, so while I prefer Gen, if someone wants to write about Servalan's stuggle to rise to power, I can very well see that it might need to be Slash. As with many things, 'gratutious' and 'neccessary'; 'character insight' and 'porn' are a bit subjective and influenced by context. I cannot even predict what my reaction will be to a story until I've seen it. I can only say that when the zine is ready to go, I will be very clear about letting people know what to expect from the stories. > Then again, I'd go for a zine with twenty different authors' versions of > Jarriere - as long as they were well written. Or Sarkoff. Or Hal > Mellanby, or Kasabi. Okay, Mistral, get to work. <g> > If you allow one main character, or tiny appearances by the crew as a > whole, I think there might be enough support for a zine like Helen's > suggested. And have allowed for that. Re: Totally different comments on fanfic, writing the characters in a way that reflects the people on screen: > But if you ask me, food, clothes, and gossip are a lot more interesting than > neutron blasters. When your life may depend on whether the neutron blasters fire, then they become compellingly fascinating. > How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being > "non-verbal." It just doesn't work. The writer communicates verbally about the characters non-verbal communication. (after Vila makes a cutting remark) "Avon stood so close to Vila he was an inch away from treading on the thief's toes. Suddenly, he flashed a broad grin, then turned and walked away." I started to write out the translation of what Avon's body language was saying to Vila, then realised doing so would undermine myself. If I felt the meaning was still unclear, as a writer,I could add Vila's mental processing. "How does he do it! Must be a cold-blooded bastard. I'd swear from the look in his eye he was about to space me, but then he grins. He tolerates me 'cause he knows I'm funny. Frankly, he could do with a *lot* more humour, not that he'll ever admit it. And I'm not going to chance my safety by playing funny man any more today. Wonder if anyone would notice if I mix up a little cocktail in the medbay?"

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

About verbal/nonverbal communication. 1) Both major parts of communication. 2) Interestingly, processed in different parts of the brain. People with damage to the left brain are generally far more reliant on verbal communication (some exclusively). I've also read of a recent study where people with verbal processing problems were proved to be far more likely to tell if someone was lying or not (the researcher said he got interested when a group he worked with kept laughing during a presidential debate a few years back). 3) Read an essay by Patricia McKillip a few years back where she discussed something about this. Character A wants to put a love spell on character B. Before you can write this, she said, you have to decide what you mean by love. 4) I was thinking of this a bit in a story I wrote where Cally kept getting frustrated because of the difficulties she has communicating with humans. Part of it's cultural - they keep assuming she can process the information they give her in the same way even though she lacks the cultural background (a Federation citizen, for example, would know what penalties a person would face for things Cally might not realize were crimes). But it also works the other way. Not only is there a nonverbal language that's subtly different from hers, she should be used to telepathic cues no one ever gives. Imagine talking to someone who gives _no_ nonverbal cues, not even tone or inflection. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] earth mothers, Patriarchy et al
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

This would be a good point in the subject of discussion to *strongly* recommend any and all works written by Barbara G. Walker (check Amazon.com, your local bookstore, etc.). Not only easy, entertaining reading, but it can literally change the way you view the world around you, overnight. Rather like waking up for the first time in your life. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho… alker%2C%20Barbara%20G./104-6013493-1959918

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Blakes7 February 2001