Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Natasa Tucev 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

Annie asked: > >How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being >"non-verbal." It just doesn't work. Try this: "O, most wicked speed, to post With such dexterity to incestuous sheets!" If you say this aloud, you'll get a wonderful hissing sound, because of all the fricatives involved. I think that even someone who doesn't speak English would realize, upon hearing this, that Hamlet is angry. N.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Fanfic
by Ellynne G. 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:07:41 -0000 "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net> writes: > On the other hand, one of the problems with regular fanfic is the > way it is > instantly overcrowded by default. Of the few stories I've done and completed, I just realized I managed to keep an awful lot of regular characters off stage. OTOH, about Mary Sues. Hmm. I do stick in original characters. Are they me? Hard to say. When I finish a story, I can look back and see things in all of them that I relate to, even the villains. Are they me? For some reason, the idea of identifying to closely with a character in fiction makes me break out in a rash, so I'll say no. But why introduce a new character? Sometimes, they're necessary. They're the character of the week. However, I've also noticed, for me, they change the parameters of the show. For me, S4 stories will always end bleakly - unless a new element is added that changes things. A young woman with a personal motivation to keep Avon and his friends alive? Well, why not? Granted, the job description requires a high degree of compotency. And yes, I suppose I'm in the midst of writing one (Avon's sort of dead and none of his friends know what's going on, an outsider was necessary). She's even (shudder) hyperactively perky. I also wrote one with Avon's extremely compotent aunt (well, she would be, wouldn't she?). There wasn't anyone else who would get this ball rolling (and I suspect Avon wouldn't entirely mind shooting her if he thought the rest of the family wouldn't hunt him down). The one thing they have in common is that the story wouldn't go anywhere I was interested in otherwise. Long day's journeys into night don't always appeal to me, I'm afraid. Somehow, I can't see avoiding that without sticking a nonB7 character in. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

Alison wrote: >Wow. I honestly believe that there is some vast gulf of what >writers and readers want, and that if you are on the other >side of it, you just don't understand the other. I'm not convinced of a gulf, there's a happy medium between telling (Blake was tense) and showing tension *only* in body language, surely? Tavia

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

n a message dated 2/13/01 7:40:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu writes: << This is actually the author trying to explain to us the psychological motivation of characters in her story, and she is doing it in a very clumsy way. She also shows great disrespect for us as the readers, because she thinks that we wouldn't be able to figure out by some more subtle signs how Blake feels about Avon or how Vila feels about Blake or whatever. >> Yes, but this is the way written fiction has to work. In a play or a tv show or a movie, so much more can be said with an *expression* or body language that *cannot* be conveyed in any other way than with words in written fiction. Ask any professional writer who has written both forms. A writer on the Highlander tv series wrote a novel about the show and she mentioned in her afterword that she couldn't *believe* how unbelievably different and difficult it was to write the novel as opposed to a script. She pointed out the fact that she had to be so much more wordy and that she couldn't rely on the actor's being able to get the feeling and the meaning of the words across. She had to *explain* everything. If an author, be they pro or fannish, doesn't include enough description, explanation, dialogue, etc., you end up with a very sterile story that might as well be a script with little to no stage direction. I've seen many fan stories like that and, believe me, once read they are usually quickly forgotten. There's nothing there to involve the reader in what's happening. As a professor of literature once told me in college: "Character is everything." A movie/tv show can focus on action/adventure to the exclusive of character (I, personally, might not enjoy that all that much, but it can work), but if a book does that, it's just boring. Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/13/01 12:55:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu writes: << This is perhaps the mainstream linguistic philosophy, but it's not the only one existing. Try reading 'Myth, Truth and Literature' by Colin Falck and you will find a lot of interesting ideas about how language originates in bodily gestures and still has its bodily dimension which is essential to its relation to the objective world (quite opposite to what Derrida et al. say). And since you once mentioned you liked me quoting poetry, here is a poem about non-verbal communication, written by my favourite Irishman: >> I can only say again that non-verbal communication does not a good story make... in fact, under most circumstances, it makes for a stultifyingly boring story with characters that are next to impossible for the reader to relate to. How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being "non-verbal." It just doesn't work. Annie

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Groundhog Day
by Predatrix 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

Can anyone give me a brief synopsis of the film to jog my mind, it's a while since I've seen it? I'm working on my story, which will probably go to F&I7 (unless people on-list really *do* want a time-loop 'zine, and are prepared to accept a story whose nature It Is Not Convenient To Describe On *This* List. ObB7: beginning of incipient story: [start quote] Good morning, sir, Zen intoned deferentially, may I suggest the black trousers with the charcoal-grey shirt and dove-grey tunic? Your tea is prepared. It is a fine day on Earth (the Supreme Commander is having a military parade again), rainy season on Palmero, and poor visibility with blizzards on Albian. Ill wear the black leather, Avon said, sipping the tea. He could hear robotic arms reproachfully reorganising his personal wardrobe. It had appealed to him to make Zen emulate the long-forgotten figure of Reginald Jeeves, but surely he had far too much intelligence to be Bertie Wooster. Maybe he could add more fish to the food processor? [endquote] Cheers, (...see you at the con, persons...)

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Alison Page 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

Stephen said - >The last book I read on the subject, or at least >started to read, (Pinker - The Language Instinct) >suggested that we think non-verbally. Great book. Have you read any Chomsky? Pinker was doing so well, then he turned to trying to define female sexuality and made a total hash of it. >Linguistic philosophers are probably so used to this >process of translation that they are not aware that it >happens ! Yes. I tend to think they aren't that different from me, they just refuse to give credence to events that they can't categorise in linguistic terms. >On a Blake's 7 note - how would this affect Cally's >Telepathy ? As explained in Time Squad it would >correspond with this theory. Cally can send because >she has translated her thoughts into *speech* but >cannot read minds, presumably because one's thoughts >are too inchoate. In later episodes she is capable of >receiving emotions but not thought. (At least, as far >as I recall). > >Any thoughts ? My thought is that I hope you are coming to Redemption so you can come along to my panel on telepathy in fiction. Steve - when is it? I never got a program Alison PS 'inchoate' isn't that a fantastic word

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Natasa Tucev 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

Alison wrote: >Your point is very well taken Natasa, and perhaps sums up for me why I could >never describe myself as a 'character junkie' because I simply don't enjoy >reading passages like the imaginary one you gave. Thank you, Alison. Unfortunately, it's not an imaginary passage, but an existing one, by a rather well-known author. I keep this story on my hard disk hoping that one day I will muster up the nerves and courage to read it to the end. My apologies to the author, but it's really unbearably pathetic. >On the other hand - who knows what people are like 'inside their heads'. I >have a problem in that most of what I do inside is non-verbal, which is why >I am so often groping for terms and names. However many linguistic >philosophers claim that thought is entirely couched in verbal terms, and >perhaps this is for them an accurate representation of how they experience >their own internal life. This is perhaps the mainstream linguistic philosophy, but it's not the only one existing. Try reading 'Myth, Truth and Literature' by Colin Falck and you will find a lot of interesting ideas about how language originates in bodily gestures and still has its bodily dimension which is essential to its relation to the objective world (quite opposite to what Derrida et al. say). And since you once mentioned you liked me quoting poetry, here is a poem about non-verbal communication, written by my favourite Irishman: THE GUTTURAL MUSE Late summer, ant at midnight I smelt the heat of day: At my window over the hotel car park I breathed the muddied night airs off the lake And watched a young crowd leave the discotheque. Their voices rose up thick and comforting As oily bubbles the feeding tench sent up That evening at dusk - the slimy tench Once called the 'doctor fish' because his slime Was said to heal the wounds of fish that touched it. A girl in a white dress Was being courted out among the cars: As her voice swarmed and puddled into laughs I felt like some old pike all badged with sores Wanting to swim in touch with soft-mouthed life. N.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Fanfic
by Ashton7＠aol.com 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/12/01 2:27:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, avona(a)jps.net writes: << Neil, you had me laughing with the remarks about how to keep the 'tone' of the series, but are there really so few people who enjoy the milieu of Blake's 7. Keeping in mind that not being able to use more than one of the main cast, there could easily be stories about Jarriere, Carnell, or Kasabi? Well, I was talking with Tavia and I am willing to edit a zine on this principle. I'm sure if people are willing to write for it, someone will be willing to read it. Who's game? >> Wasn't there already a zine done on basically this premise? "Forgotten 7"? Or am I misremembering the basic premise of that one? Personally, I think if people are inspired to write the stories, have at it. But, I have to agree with those who said it's likely not to sell very well if the entire zine follows that formula. Most fans want to read fan fiction that is about their favorite characters and they won't hesitate to say so. ;-) And, hi. Since I'm still on disability from work, I re-subscribed to the list after a looooong absence. I know that some of you guys know me. ::::waving very gingerly in a neck brace::::: Annie Wortham (who just realized my posts have been going to the individuals instead of the list... the Reply To says the list address, but for some reason that's not what's happening...)

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Fw: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Natasa Tucev 13 Feb '01

13 Feb '01

This post was probably intended for the Lyst: Return-Path: <Ashton7(a)aol.com> From: Ashton7(a)aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:37:18 EST Subject: Re: [B7L] liking 'character' To: tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu >In a message dated 2/13/01 7:40:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, >tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu writes: > ><< This is actually the author trying to explain to us the psychological > motivation of characters in her story, and she is doing it in a very clumsy > way. She also shows great disrespect for us as the readers, because she > thinks that we wouldn't be able to figure out by some more subtle signs how > Blake feels about Avon or how Vila feels about Blake or whatever. >> > >Yes, but this is the way written fiction has to work. In a play or a tv show >or a movie, so much more can be said with an *expression* or body language >that *cannot* be conveyed in any other way than with words in written >fiction. Ask any professional writer who has written both forms. A writer on >the Highlander tv series wrote a novel about the show and she mentioned in >her afterword that she couldn't *believe* how unbelievably different and >difficult it was to write the novel as opposed to a script. She pointed out >the fact that she had to be so much more wordy and that she couldn't rely on >the actor's being able to get the feeling and the meaning of the words >across. She had to *explain* everything. > >If an author, be they pro or fannish, doesn't include enough description, >explanation, dialogue, etc., you end up with a very sterile story that might >as well be a script with little to no stage direction. I've seen many fan >stories like that and, believe me, once read they are usually quickly >forgotten. There's nothing there to involve the reader in what's happening. >As a professor of literature once told me in college: "Character is >everything." A movie/tv show can focus on action/adventure to the exclusive >of character (I, personally, might not enjoy that all that much, but it can >work), but if a book does that, it's just boring. > >Annie > >

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Blakes7 February 2001