Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re [B7L] Deliverance - keg marxist take
by Neil Faulkner 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Well, since Natasa has cited me as a part-time Marxist critic, I suppose I ought to rise to the challenge... * The only thing missing from Deliverance is the pith helmets, because this episode is little more than a sad pastiche of Rider Haggard with pretensions to being science fiction. Our stalwart bunch of middle-class Home Counties adventurers find themselves ditched on a planet consigned to quaint notions of barbarism through the magically convenient means of 'a war' at some unspecified point in the past. Almost from the start we're told that whatever society there was has undergone a 'reversion to primitive', and it isn't long before we're comfortably assured that primitive means dangerous. The planet itself is dangerous, what with all that radioactivity. Despite which, there are some local primitives still knocking around. First off, we have a bunch of men (plural), who are aggressive, inarticulate, and unaccountably hostile. What better excuse could you need for shooting them with impunity? Well, just in case, the script has one to offer - they like to steal our women. We don't see Jenna get abducted, but surely she wouldn't have gone off with them of her own accord? Heaven forbid! They don't actually do anything with her beyond sticking her in a tent, thus sparing all and sundry the anguish of singing Here Comes The Night. As well as the men, we also have a Woman (singular), who is young, passive, demure, extremely well spoken and has somehow managed to keep all her teeth white. She instantly throws herself at the feet of our sturdy white giants and hails them as the saviours of her people, singling out Avon as 'Lord'. Vila and Gan presumably come from Another Place.

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Re: [B7L] Re:Delivereance= The Lady of Shallott
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 20:03:31 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> writes: > Fiona, I respect your opinion, but I cannot agree that Lancelot was > callous to send up a brief but heartfelt prayer at the sight of a > mystery woman's body floating down the river in a boat. Been listening to Lorena McKennet's (sp?) version of this all week. It's sappy, but I thought the point was that Lancelot is the only one to feel compassion and a human connection to the LoS, therebye giving some sense her love wasn't unrequited. But then, I wrote a story as a kid that dropped her death and all that only to have the lady be a bad tempered demoness who'd been waiting a thousand years for some sap to come let her out so she could start ravaging that fairy tale countryside again (where do you think she got the thread? She was part giant spider). No, I do not connect her with Brian the Spider. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: <Funny thing occurs to me-- why has nobody seriously suggested that Meegatould join the Liberator crew? Esp if she is as intelligent, resourceful, strong, full of personality and feminist as some think.> She's not a criminal, Fiona. They do have *some* standards to maintain ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Harriet Monkhouse 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Sally replied to Fiona: >>But again, her attempt to escape fails, and it is >>Avon and Co. who rescue her in the end ... > ><grin> but you will notice it took *three* of them to do it ... Whereas she rescued four of them - well, Gan didn't make it, but that wasn't her fault - in Pressure Point. Harriet

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Harriet Monkhouse 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Sally was doubtful: >Penny decreed: >No. You have to say you really liked him in "Hostage". >> And you have to say .it like you mean it. > >As in with a straight face? Can this be *done*? I thought he was wonderful, myself. Look, my face was perfectly straight! She also replied to Fiona: >>I've seen "Julius Caesar" played totally straight >>by BBC actors dressed as ancient Roman aristocrats, >>and I've seen it played by an alternative theatre company >>who portrayed all the charactes as working-class >>Chicago mobsters.> > >But have you seen the two mixed up and played with >characters from both thrown together and pretending >they didn't notice? That's the crucial point here for me - >Brian Croucher wasn't playing the same character in a >different production, but a different character in *the >same* production. Well, I've seen the same actor play Cassius for laughs up to the interval and in heartrending tragic mode afterwards. Both worked, but he never made it clear how he'd travelled from one to the other. Harriet

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

After Jan wrote: <Jenna is not a feeble resourceless character. She frees herself from her restraints and is very unlucky to be spotted by one of the tribesmen as she exits the tent.> Fiona came back: <But again, her attempt to escape fails, and it is Avon and Co. who rescue her in the end ...> <grin> but you will notice it took *three* of them to do it ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Marian de Haan 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Sally wrote re Shadow: >Blake is being fabulously unreasonable and pig-headed, Vilakins is doing his kid-locked-out-of-a-candy-store bit, and Avon's wearing those boots ...< And Cally is at her best... Marian

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Re: Deliverance
by Helen Krummenacker 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

> Now hang *on!* You can't separate power from gender, a point which I recall > has been made by Neil, Una, Alison and myself among *many* others on this > list. Try this: Servalan has a submissive man at her feet. She steps on him and continues walking on. Or she talks to him only to find out how useful he will be. She tells him she will help him after she recovers her pilot. They rescue the pilot. She shoots the submissive male and goes on her way. Cally has a submissive man at her feet. She gets him to stand up, asks many questions showing a keen interest in what he thinks he is doing and why. She helps him with his request, then asks him to man the door while she rescues the pilot. Same gender-reversal in both cases. Servalan is evil because she's evil, not because she's a woman. Cally, in this scenario, does what Avon did-- because they are neither one the sort to abuse power over another person.

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Deliverance - My final word on the topic
by Stephen Date 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Meegat: Welcome Lord Avon's Aunt: He's not the Messiah, he's just a naughty boy. (Sorry - couldn't resist it) Stephen. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] Heavy (was: Subtext vs Character)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Sally wrote: > Tis the way he tries soooooo hard to be menacing and intimidating (the way > T1 managed seemingly as naturally as breathing) and just - just - *isn't* > (and it isn't only Hostage, goodness knows he has a nerve calling My Gnome a > powderpuff in Gambit). Sorry, dear, but Travis 2 just *isn't* Blake's equal > and it shows, painfully. I don't know about that. Travis got Blake pretty much where he wanted him in "Hostage." Travis also got to Star One first. And Travis' machinations forced Blake to abandon his plans for Star One. With post-Trial T2 having far fewer resources than Blake he had to be a plucky sort of scrambler to be as successful as he was, and to be one step ahead of Blake as often as he was. He was very much Blake's equal, which is what kept the contest interesting. And it's what kept Blake from looking like a loser. If his primary enemy had been less bright and less effectual, Blake would have had to have been a lot more successful or we would have been saying, "What's the matter with this guy that he can't accomplish more?" When he's up against T2, we know why Blake isn't accomplishing more. Not that T2 was perfect. In HOSTAGE he should have killed Blake as soon as he had Avon and Vila. He no longer needed Blake to get him Liberator. The other time he failed to finish Blake was in STAR ONE. But it's still a glorious Travis moment. He dominates the screen. I love the way Brian delivers the lines: "His name is Blake. Hm. His name was Blake." The edge of insanity he incorporates into those lines is brilliant. I have no problem with the switch from Stephen to Brian. T1 has the might of Space Command behind him; he's coolly confident that he'll succeed. T2 has been faced with numerous failures. He's no longer as confident. He's growing stressed and ragged. Then the Federation itself betrays him. I don't know how Stephen would have played second season Travis, but Brian's interpretation is spot on perfect for me. Carol Mc

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Blakes7 February 2001