Blakes7 February 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

80 participants
929 discussions

Re: Re [B7L] Deliverance - keg marxist take (OT)
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Una wrote (or was it Iain? Sorry, getting muddled): But problem 2 is solved by problem 1. Get some of the old geezers and ask them what it used to be like. Of course, you'll have to be quick: they're dropping like flies.> Dunno why, but this reminds me of Anna Russell's words re collecting folk songs (I can't find the CD, so this is a mis-remembered version') "You go to a village and find the oldest inhabitant, and ask him to sing you the songs his mother taught him. "Well you'll probably find that he's deaf, and if he isn't deaf he can't sing, and if he can sing he doesn't want to, and by the time you've persuaded him and he does sing, you won't understand a word of what he's singing about. "This is how folk songs have been passed down from generation to generation." _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <Sally, you're not a convert by any chance, are you?> Err, sorry. Started rewatching Shadow today. Now that one could be chock-full of ideas and themes and significance - BUT Blake is being fabulously unreasonable and pig-headed, Vilakins is doing his kid-locked-out-of-a-candy-store bit, and Avon's wearing those boots ... How can you compete? ;-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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to junkie-fy or not to junkie-fy, that was probably the question ...
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

... Or maybe not. WARNING - this is appallingly about *me*, so feel free to switch off now. But I did get to think some more about what it is that *makes* me more interested in the characters, as well as the odd things I seem to burble about on the lists (apart from My Darlings). Things like "how did they manage to miss the Treasure room for four months?" "How do Zen's food processors work?" (you will notice I don't give a damn about the guns or bracelets, but the food and who does the sewing? Oh yes ...) And anyone who's read my little Christmas story in Star Four may have noticed my fascination for the minutinae of these people putting together the bits and pieces of a ancient festival ... I am fascinated by just that story of detail. As I've mentioned, I'm a history student, and will read just about anything in that line (I am still trying to explain the $140 book on Jacobean funerals to my family :-)) whether it be on labour relations in Interwar Europe, the rise of fascism, the history of women's rights, the Lives of the Queens of England ... you name it. But none of those can hold the sheer enthralled fascination that an old box of 1940s knitting patterns, cut out from magazines, that I spent a 6 hour train journey absorbing one time (and I don't knit). I read old cookery books *for fun*. I wouldn't know one end of a modern tractor from another, but I'll go to a field day to study the decrepit 1920s hand tools. Does this all make sense? I like delving right into other people's everyday lives, the things they do and own and take for granted, and I do tend to carry this over into my character junkie-ism. There's far more to it than just this (as anyone who sat through my part in the Star One discussions knows) but I really am more interested in whether Avon might have made the computers deliver decent coffee - and if the wardrobe room carried fresh undies and what on earth they did if it *didn't* - and what Our Heroes talked about over the dinner room table - than the underlying philosophy of the people who made the series, or the significance in modern terms of their pre-suppositions built into the series. It;s not that the latter *isn't* interesting, it's just that the former is *fascinating* (even if we don't have many clues to go on mutter grumble). So *of course* I'm a character person. How can I help it? And yet I don't like soap operas. Go figure. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Kathryn wrote: <But Travis has no excuse... unless you blame the retraining therapists for turning a cold, sharp, snooty Alpha into a thuggy Beta who worked his way up the ranks. They are two completely different people.> 'Fraid I agree ... there was *no* attempt as far as I can see to match Travis II to the the character already established, and it's a shame. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Rickman
by Helen Krummenacker 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

> Believe me, you don't have to be an Avon fan to succumb to Alan Rickman. > He's mesmeric. BTW whatever happened to his film about Messmer? > Cheers > Chris Blenkarn If anyone can answer this, please do.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Leadership-- Cally
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:09:50 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> writes: > > > I see her as being perfectly willing to follow someone who is > working > *for the cause*, and thus, it was perfectly sensible for her to go > along > with Blake's leadership in most situations. But when Blake > disappeared, > it is Cally the good-natured mystic rather than Cally-the-warrior > (whom > I prefer) Agreed. I think Cally found herself somewhat at loose ends. She couldn't go back to Auron and, for whatever reasons, couldn't or wouldn't move on to another group. What I find interesting is that, when she did oppose something, it was often _just_ her. She asked Avon if that meant _she_ was just following orders - not _they_. Even when she convinced them to go to Auron, she was the catalyst, not the leader. > Jenna, however, was not in a position to be likely to become a > long-term > leader. She seems to prefer being a team player. I always thought of her as having been captain of her own ship before the London, but that's noncanonical. Being an expert > smuggler does not necessarily make one a leader, and even when she > clashed with Avon, it was on loyalty to the team over opportunism. True. I was going to argue she was more prone to a 'we' outlook than Cally, but this could be argued as team-speak, just as it could be argued Cally's language reflected potentially leading the group instead of being part of the herd. I still think of her as the stronger, more dominant personality type than Cally. Cally could have bossed Vila around. Dayna was young and in a very alien environment. If she had any sense, she'd let Cally take the lead. Tarrant? Despite his clashes with Avon, I think his military discipline would have made him accept whoever the ship 'belonged' to. He might have egotistically thought of himself as her more capable advisor (he does have an ego problem, after all) but he would have generally given way. Eventually. I just don't think Cally would have liked it. I give it two weeks before she offers to pay Tarrant off and starts checking the phone book for any relatives of Dayna. Ellynne Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Heavy (was: Subtext vs Character)
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Penny wrote: <If not primarily the accent, what specifically about T2 strikes you as (attempting to be) "heavier" than T1? (Please note how I restrain myself from cheap shots regarding relative waist measurements)> Why do you think I put *in* the wannabe? Someone should have fed him more. Hunting Blakes is hard work for a not-growing-any-more lad (just ask Avon). 'Tis the way he tries soooooo hard to be menacing and intimidating (the way T1 managed seemingly as naturally as breathing) and just - just - *isn't* (and it isn't only Hostage, goodness knows he has a nerve calling My Gnome a powderpuff in Gambit). Sorry, dear, but Travis 2 just *isn't* Blake's equal and it shows, painfully. OTOH, I *still* like Travis 2 in Trial, bits of Pressure Point and, yes Gambit. Maybe in The Keeper, though I don't like *it*. Not in Star One, I'm afraid. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: <I've seen "Julius Caesar" played totally straight by BBC actors dressed as ancient Roman aristocrats, and I've seen it played by an alternative theatre company who portrayed all the charactes as working-class Chicago mobsters.> But have you seen the two mixed up and played with characters from both thrown together and pretending they didn't notice? That's the crucial point here for me - Brian Croucher wasn't playing the same character in a different production, but a different character in *the same* production. Bit like the soapie characters who go to bed with one face and wake up with another, and no one's supposed to see the difference ... <I also find your interpretation of Travis II a bit disturbing. So just because he has a regional accent, he's automatically a thug who has worked his way up through the ranks?> S'not just (or even mostly) the accident. His whole demeanour and aura is more as a heavy (or heavy wannabe, he's really not *as* menacing IMO). With the exception of the rather lighter leather outfit and that mouth. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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re: Deliverance and Jan B
by Nathan Hook 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

> >Jan, you forgot something with regards to Avon being the natural choice. >the nose. That big Roman nose of his is a blatent phallic symbol. How could meegat resist, he was clearly the only one fully qualified to fire the rocket off. Gan was big everywhere, but where it counted. >Nayte. > > >'A lady of a "certain age", which means/ Certainly aged.'Byron. 'A lady of a "certain age", which means/ Certainly aged.'Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ love and pixels .:. http://dieselsweeties.com/

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Re: Matriarchs (was Re: [B7L] Further to the last post)
by Pherber＠aol.com 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Kat: > > Why do I suddenly recall that thread about Avon's Aunts? Ellynne: > I admit, I was thinking of them, all six of them, what one text defines > as "a suffocation of aunts," the kind of people who make meeting Travis > in a dark alley seem like a good thing . . . . Hmm...yes, meeting Auntie Diana in a dark alley would probably give even Travis palpitations! <g> Nina

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Blakes7 February 2001