Blakes7 September 2001

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56 participants
222 discussions

Re: [B7L] Second in command
by Sally Manton 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

James wrote: <It's possible to suggest an 'in-series' explanation, in that Jenna did apparently betray the crew in Bounty (although she did use her position to save them in the end).> I think this did have something to do with it, but moreso in the way that the rest so readily believed that she'd turned on them - even *after* she came in and clearly saw the loosened manacles. Even gan, whom she'd been so determined to save in the previous episode - gave her no benefit of doubt (only Blake did). While Jenna did a good job in the few times he'd left her in charge, her ability to lead - especially where Avon was concerned, but also Cally and Gan - would have to be in doubt after this. After all, among this rather unmilitary lot, the position *of* second-in-command was a fairly artificial one anyway. I get the feeling quite a bit of the 'authority' Jenna had, especially in the earlier episodes, seemed to be as 'the pilot', the most experienced space-traveller, the one teaching the others how to run the ship. As they became more experienced and needed less guidance, that authority would also diminish. When Blake was away, they all tended to throw in ideas and 'commands' and *no one* was really second in command until after Control (in Trial, they're all equal in that sniping discussion, and right up till the point where they need to rescue Blake - then all of a sudden Avon *is* in charge :-). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] Second in command
by James Mansson ARGO 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

Steve Rogerson wrote: >This was such a sudden change, especially after the episode Bounty, >which was one of Jenna's best episodes, that one suspects it was part >of a deliberate decision to elevate Avon's role. Whether this came >from pressure from the actors or from feedback from viewers, I suspect >we won't know. However, from now on, Jenna's role is reduced. She had >a good first season but a bad second season, the reason quoted for >Sally Knyvette's decision to quit the show. It's possible to suggest an 'in-series' explanation, in that Jenna did apparently betray the crew in Bounty (although she did use her position to save them in the end). Perhaps this incident decreased her standing with the rest of the crew, and led to the rise of a new second in command, Avon. He was the only alternative: Vila was clearly unsuitable, Gan too passive and Cally susceptible to alien influence. Best wishes, James

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Re: [B7L] Second in command
by Marian de Haan 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

Steve Rogerson wrote about Jenna suddenly taking orders from Avon in Deliverance: >This was such a sudden change, especially after the episode Bounty, which was one of Jenna's best episodes, that one suspects it was part of a deliberate decision to elevate Avon's role.< I've heard that the initial draft had Blake in charge of the group going down to the planet while Avon stayed on the ship. Apparently a last minute rewrite was done, giving Blake's part to Avon. It does make the crew interaction feel a bit out of character, not only Jenna willingly placing her self under Avon's command but also Avon volunteering for such a mission. Marian

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Subject: [B7L] Second in command
by Sally Manton 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

Steve R wrote: <During my current watching of season one, I've been looking at the command structure on the Liberator. It seemed fairly clear early on that Jenna was second in command. However, in the episode Deliverance, near the end of season one, we suddenly see a shift, and it is now Avon who is second in command and is giving Jenna orders when they go down to the planet. In fact, just before they go down, Jenna makes a half-hearted disagreement with something Avon says and is shot down.> Yes, I noticed this too :-) Can think of both an out-of-series and an in-series expanation. It does appear that - when pitching the series and populating it, Terry Nation intended Jenna to be the second-most important character (she's in the central role of pilot, there's that lightly sketched 'romantic' thing with The Hero, she *does* have a background full of promise and possibilities). Therefore, in the scripts he delivered, she was in that position on the flight deck as well as the credits. Deliverance, however, was fairly heavily re-written part-way through the filming of S1. In its original form, presumably, she was subordinate, as usual, to Fearless Leader, who was meant to go down and play god, but when it was rewritten, Blake's and Avon's roles were switched, leaving Avon quite emphatically in authority over Jenna (since no one considered making *Jenna* play goddess instead). I do think this was exacerbated by Chirs Boucher's openly admitted preference for writing for Avon (I'm not sure if the scene where Avon gives Jenna orders in Orac was also a rewrite - possibly, since if Deliverance had been filmed as originally written, Blake would have been the one left on board with radiation sickness :-)) <This was such a sudden change, especially after the episode Bounty, which was one of Jenna's best episodes, that one suspects it was part of a deliberate decision to elevate Avon's role. Whether this came from pressure from the actors or from feedback from viewers, I suspect we won't know.> I doubt if it were audience pressure at this stage, since the high-pressure filming schedule wouldn't have allowed for it - they had enough to do keeping up with necessary changes like the deliverance one. <However, from now on, Jenna's role is reduced. She had a good first season but a bad second season, the reason quoted for Sally Knyvette's decision to quit the show.> Agreed with this, and here I *do* think audience reaction to My Darling had an impact, as well as the writers' preference for writing for Avon (let's face it, Paul, Gareth and Michael could make their writing sound so much better - of *course* they're going to give the best stuff to them :-)) and Sally Knyvette's relative inexperience and inability to grab some control over her character. Piloting a completely alien ship is all very well and good and clever, but Jenna would have been better off script-wise fighting Blake as well as the Federation. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Re: [B7L] re: World Trade Centre - OT
by J MacQueen 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

>From: Mistral <mistral(a)centurytel.net> >(note: my spell-checker wants to turn him into falafel) I think your spell-checker won't be the only one, after that! Thanks, Mistral, for the laugh. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

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Second in command
by Steve Rogerson 17 Sep '01

17 Sep '01

During my current watching of season one, I've been looking at the command structure on the Liberator. It seemed fairly clear early on that Jenna was second in command. However, in the episode Deliverance, near the end of season one, we suddenly see a shift, and it is now Avon who is second in command and is giving Jenna orders when they go down to the planet. In fact, just before they go down, Jenna makes a half-hearted disagreement with something Avon says and is shot down. This was such a sudden change, especially after the episode Bounty, which was one of Jenna's best episodes, that one suspects it was part of a deliberate decision to elevate Avon's role. Whether this came from pressure from the actors or from feedback from viewers, I suspect we won't know. However, from now on, Jenna's role is reduced. She had a good first season but a bad second season, the reason quoted for Sally Knyvette's decision to quit the show. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Avon and Travis in Sheffield
by Judith Proctor 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

For anyone thinking of going to this event, Jacqui Speel tells me that Sheffield Hallam University is close to the railway station and The Crucible. One of the art galleries is directly opposite. Thanks, Jacqui. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '03 21-23 Feb 2003 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Avon and Travis in Sheffield
by Judith Proctor 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

There's a mini-event in Sheffield on 22 September with Paul Darrow and Brian Croucher. It's at Sheffield Hallam University, Howard St, Sheffield. It includes interviews with the guests, autographs and photographs, merchandise on sale and a raffle. Start 12.30 and finishes 4.30. NB - Entrance to this event will be by ticket only. Tickets at £10 can be ordered from the Galaxy 4 shop: Galaxy 4, 493 Glossop Road, Broomhill,Sheffield. S10 2QE. Tel: 01142684976. Please enclose a SAE for return of tickets. Cheques should be made payable to Galaxy 4. They also accept Visa, Mastercard, Switch and Solo by post, fax, tel or e-mail It will also be possible to attend the signing session only, from 2.30, without buying a ticket. Entrance will by purchase of Occam's Razor the first CD in the new Kaldor City series. I'm rather frustrated that I can't go - I've a sister in Sheffield and combining family and Paul Darrow strikes me as an excellent idea. Ah well, if any list members go, please tell me what it was like. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '03 21-23 Feb 2003 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Re: [B7L] Re: OT world trade centre
by Steve Kilbane 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Steve R wrote: > If you apply vested > interest in governments when they make this kind of estimate, I > presume you are also claiming the US government is exaggerating the > people killed in New York this week. Knowing that that would be a > stupid thing to do, may give you some idea of how I consider your > comment above. For the purposes of estimating casualties, I don't think the situations are comparable. The WTC and the various aircraft all had statistics available in advance concerning the number of people normally occupying them. The Pentagon would have been less chatty, but still able to give approximate figures. There have been other casualties, too - firemen, for example - but the figure will have been dominated by the number of workers in the WTC. In contrast, how do you derive even vaguely accurate estimates of casualties from an incredibly long period of continuous carpet-bombing of a whole city, never mind the rest of Desert Storm? In terms of inflating figures, I've no comment to make, being not suitably informed to judge. steve

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Re: [B7L] letter in Interzone
by Steve Kilbane 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Alison wrote: > I was re-watching 'Pulp Fiction' last night, and thinking how absurd to > describe it as a film without a moral centre. Quite so: those that choose to change their ways survive, while those that don't, don't. (in a very broad way) steve

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Blakes7 September 2001