Blakes7 September 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

56 participants
222 discussions

Re: OT world trade centre
by Steve Rogerson 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Jonathan Coupe said: "But the US will make every reasonable effort to spare civilian lives, while mounting an effective counter-attack" I'm puzzled by this staement, because there is no evidence for it. The US has a shameful record of not giving a shit for civilian life when it decides a country is its enemy, From Vietnam to Iraq to Serbia and Kosova and others, it has opted for blanket bombing tactics. In Iraq alone, it is estimated the US killed about 100,000 civilians, backed shamefully by the British government. The fear of the rest of the world today is that the US may respond similiarly and respond to a disgraceful and terrible terrorist act by doing something equivalent or worse. It is one thing some individual maniac terrorists committing this type of act, it is another thing for a state to do it, and the US has done this in the past. I really hope they won't do it again. If they do, more innocent people will lose their lives. The answer to indiscriminate murder is not indiscriminate murder. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: OT world trade centre
by Steve Rogerson 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Jonathan Coupe said: "Estimated by who? The Iraqi government, with every interest in inflating their claims, and a moral record that a repel a hyena" I'm not sure how the estimate was made, but it is a fairly acknowledged estimate of the civilians in Iraq killed during the Gulf War. Plus, the Iraqi government is probably in the best position to know how many of its civilians have been killed. If you apply vested interest in governments when they make this kind of estimate, I presume you are also claiming the US government is exaggerating the people killed in New York this week. Knowing that that would be a stupid thing to do, may give you some idea of how I consider your comment above. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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Re: letter in Interzone
by Steve Rogerson 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

I'd heard there was a letter; the author of the letter said in the B7 discussion group how she pleased she was to get it published. I don't normally get Interzone, but I'll make an effort to get this issue. -- cheers Steve Rogerson http://homepages.poptel.org.uk/steve.rogerson Redemption 03, 21-23 February 2003, Ashford, Kent Celebrating 25 years of Blake's 7 and 10 years of Babylon 5 http://www.smof.com/redemption

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letter in Interzone
by Alison Page 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Interzone is an SF magazine that I read every month. I though people might like to read part of a letter published this month, written in response to an article about SF on TV by Evelyn Lewes. From Rachel Churcher. 'My blood pressure first began to rise when I came across her description of Blakes 7 as 'execrable'. She suggests that Blakes 7 and Farscape both suffer from having no 'moral centre'... On Blakes 7 I am more than willing to comment. To suggest that the series has no moral centre is ridiculous - unless perhaps Ms Lewes has only seen a few episodes from season 4, when Avon had lost the moral anchor provided by Blake, and faces fewer moral dilemmas in his absence. Go back to seasons one and two for some blistering debates on the morality behind the actions indulged in by the crew. The early episodes revolve around determining who is morally right in their actions and decisions.' Good work Rachel, whoever you are. Though I think that the moral issues do not fall into the background in season 4 (or S3). I was re-watching 'Pulp Fiction' last night, and thinking how absurd to describe it as a film without a moral centre. As with Blakes 7, a work doesn't have to be about moral people in order to be about morality. Alison

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RE: Re: [B7L] re: World Trade Centre - OT - giving blood
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

I know there were calls for blood donations - can I say as a blood donor that it is 'not unpleasant' (but if you suffer from allergies, bear in mind some people react to the surgical tape used). Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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Re: [B7L] re: World Trade Centre - OT
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

In a message dated 9/15/01 1:49:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mistral(a)centurytel.net writes: << Yes, Mohammed taught peace. And his followers have observed his teachings about as well as the followers of Christ have followed Christ's--which is to say intermittently and with varying degrees of success. >> Case in point. Imagine using the horrific tragedy to push your agenda on a nationally broadcast public program: http://www.washblade.com/national/010914b.htm Leah

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re: World Trade Centre - OT
by Alison Page 16 Sep '01

16 Sep '01

Mistral said - > the entire idea of > non-combatants in war is both very recent historically, and Western in > origin I think you are mistaken. There was a (European) academic on the radio yesterday saying that the Koran (unlike western religious texts) explicitly condemns the killing of civilians. Even at the height of the middle ages, the crusaders recognised that their Islamic enemies were honorable and chivalrous soldiers. I have - even quite recently to people on this list - criticised various religions. But I think it is quite wrong to imply that terrorism and killing are more in line with some religions than others, or more a part of religion that of atheism, or anything else of that kind. It is easy for us to persuade ourselves that we are better than other people. It is comforting to do so in times like these. I'm sure we need and want to discuss this situation on various mailing lists. However I would be very upset if Lysator hosted blanket condemnation of non-Western cultures. We in the 'west' did not invent virtue and honour, and we are not the only people in the world who respect them. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] OT world trade centre
by Alison Page 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Carol said > I hadn't meant to imply that public expressions were necessary No, I didn't hear any criticism in your comment. I just thought people might like to know how it was over here, at least in the bits I know about. We do have several American people working with us, which brings it home. Alison

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That's Entertainment
by Dana Shilling 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

In some ways I agree with Neil-- that it seems trivial to discuss a tragic historical event in terms of any entertainment property. But in other ways I think it's important to see how the popular images within a culture deal with death and loss-- especially violent death. I think that the perceptions of many people now calling for bloodbaths have been shaped far more by movies, TV and video games than by actual experience of warfare. (The US is generally the Away team.) It's been remarked that seeing wars on television is a new cultural phenomenon-- I suspect that a lot of people can't tell the difference between news footage and disaster movies. Certainly the most common eyewitness description of the attack was that it was just like a movie. -(Y)

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Re: [B7L] OT world trade centre
by Mac4781＠aol.com 15 Sep '01

15 Sep '01

Alison wrote: > I think many English people feel awkward about publicising > their own most felt emotions. And I strongly hope that doesn't come across > as coldness or lack of feeling. Oh dear. I hadn't meant to imply that public expressions were necessary (or even appropriate when we're talking about B7 lists). I very much recognize and respect that many individuals turn inward when emotions run deepest. Carol

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Blakes7 September 2001