Blakes7 September 2001

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

56 participants
222 discussions

RE: [B7L] World Trade Centre - OT
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Leia Fee <Sha_Ka_Ree(a)compuserve.com> wrote: >Dana said.. >>I would say that certainly ancient and medieval, and some >>early modern warfare was quite limited in geographic scope and the >>number of people involved; the vast majority of casualties were due to >>disease and wound infection rather than direct interpersonal violence-- >>basically, you'd have a small bunch of guys on horses trying to knock each >>other down and a larger bunch of guys hitting each other with clubs. The >>longbow and crossbow improved the ability of soldiers to kill other >soldiers >>but didn't lead to civilian deaths. > >It was limited by their *ability* to cause mass deaths more than their >moral's mind. Pillaging an enemy's lands to force your opponent to meet >you in direct conflict was quite common. > >Such tactics were used at such a famous battle as Hastings...Harold would >have been far better tactically to leave William stew for a while...his >supply lines were longer and his power base further away. However William >was pillaging around Pevensey and Harold had to go and sort him out before >his own people decided he was no use as a king and rose in favour of >another. > >Leia > 'It is said' that 1066 was the only time two independent invasions were 'running around' England at one time (Harald of Scandinavia and Harold of England's brother Tostig were in the North of England) - and probably one of teh few such occurrances anywhere. Jacqui __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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RE: [B7L] Re: Terrorism
by jacquispeel＠netscape.net 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> wrote: >Mistral, interesting defense of the other point of view, with one >problem: we don't know for sure who did it. > >Maybe we should ask, why Servalan never thought to manufacture an >"incident" of this type to blame on Blake. (Not saying that's what's >happened here, either.) Did Servie have a limit to what she would do, >after all? > Or just publicise 'Blake's death' on Jevron - and quash any hopes of him making a comeback. Jacqui > __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/

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World Trade Centre - OT
by Leia Fee 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Dana said.. >I would say that certainly ancient and medieval, and some >early modern warfare was quite limited in geographic scope and the >number of people involved; the vast majority of casualties were due to >disease and wound infection rather than direct interpersonal violence-- >basically, you'd have a small bunch of guys on horses trying to knock each >other down and a larger bunch of guys hitting each other with clubs. The >longbow and crossbow improved the ability of soldiers to kill other soldiers >but didn't lead to civilian deaths. It was limited by their *ability* to cause mass deaths more than their moral's mind. Pillaging an enemy's lands to force your opponent to meet you in direct conflict was quite common. Such tactics were used at such a famous battle as Hastings...Harold would have been far better tactically to leave William stew for a while...his supply lines were longer and his power base further away. However William was pillaging around Pevensey and Harold had to go and sort him out before his own people decided he was no use as a king and rose in favour of another. Leia

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Re: Terrorism
by Helen Krummenacker 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Mistral, interesting defense of the other point of view, with one problem: we don't know for sure who did it. Maybe we should ask, why Servalan never thought to manufacture an "incident" of this type to blame on Blake. (Not saying that's what's happened here, either.) Did Servie have a limit to what she would do, after all?

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Re: [B7L] World Trade Centre - OT
by Natasa Tucev 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

Mistral, I appreciate your attempt to understand the mindset of another culture, especially when it's the culture of an enemy, but in your analysis which was overall well-meant I sense some (probably unconscious) arrogance and self-deceit to which I have to react. > >If one reflects that (1) the terrorists consider themselves at war with >the West generally, and the US specifically; (2) the entire idea of >non-combatants in war is both very recent historically, and Western in >origin; (3) certain traditional cultural views in the Mideast are >particularly bloodthirsty [also please note that I am not making any >particular moral judgements about bloodthirstiness] it should not be >difficult to grasp the idea that a certain segment of the Arab world >would not only approve but celebrate these events. It does not make them >sick; it simply indicates they are not Westernized. One of the things which disgusts me about my people, Serbs, is their hypocrisy. Always prattling about Croatian crimes, Muslim crimes, American crimes, never mentioning the horrible crimes they themselves have commited. Seeing a speck in their brother's eye, not seeing the trunk in their own eye. Never willing to look in the mirror and see the truth's ugly face. Dear Western friends, please don't behave the same way. To say that Arabs are cruel and prone to kill non-combatants because they are not Westernized is total nonsense. In the last century the governments of the civilized Western world have commited numerous crimes, killed appaling number of people and used weapons of devastating power over innocent civilians. Certain politeness and hypocrisy in expression and the fact that one doesn't gloat publicly over the enemy's death don't change the essence of things. If an air raid is called 'humanitarian intervention', cluster bombs and depleted uranium still fall on people's heads. If one 'services a target', he still kills people. Women and children haven't stopped dying just because they are referred to as 'co-lateral victims'. Please let us not forget that the masters of war are fucking bastards regardless of their cultural differences. I hope people from US don't get me wrong. I was horrified by the events in your country. I was especially shocked by the sight of Arab children rejoicing and I don't think any cultural peculiarity can justify teaching children to hate. I feel deeply sorry for your loss and hope all of you who read this and your families and friends are safe and well. And on this note let me finish this hasty post written with too much adrenaline in blood. I hope I didn't insult anyone. Natasa

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Re: [B7L] Re: Blakes7 and religion
by Pherber＠aol.com 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

In a message dated 09/12/2001 12:57:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time, avona(a)jps.net writes: > So... Vila took too much Communion Wine? More likely he stole the entire bottle, at least. And probably the chalice too! ;-) Nina

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List archive downtime this weekend
by Calle Dybedahl 13 Sep '01

13 Sep '01

The company I work for is moving to a new office building this weekend, and since the mailing list archive runs on my workstation that means that the archive will be unavailable for some time. This will not affect the list itself, only the archive. -- Calle Dybedahl <calle(a)lysator.liu.se> Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to make sense.

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Re: World Trade Center OT
by Helen Krummenacker 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

I'm fine and have heard back from friends and family in New York and DC. And, actually, easy enough to create the Obligatory Blake's 7 reference here. I don't think the "Is Blake a Freedom Fighter or a Terrorist" thread will be resurrected for a long time. This wasn't about an attempt by someone to alleiviate their own conditions-- it was an act of cruelty. Bayban the butcher, might do something like this, not Blake.

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Re: Blakes7 and religion
by Helen Krummenacker 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

Mistral said: Perhaps there are whole planets of Quakers, Buddhists, Wiccans. Perhaps one of the forbidden pleasures of places like Space City and Freedom City is an hour alone in a Zen garden, or the chance to take Holy Communion with other believers. So... Vila took too much Communion Wine?

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Re: [B7L] World Trade Centre - OT
by Ellynne G. 12 Sep '01

12 Sep '01

On Tue, 11 Sep 2001 21:16:07 +0000 "Sally Manton" <smanton(a)hotmail.com> writes: > Woke up this morning, turned on the internet and read the dreadful > news ... > > Hoping all our people in the US and their families are all right? I guess this is a good time for a roll call. I'm OK. I'm trying to think of something else to say. Shocked, stunned, praying for those aren't so fortunate, who lost friends, family, or worse today. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Blakes7 September 2001