Blakes7 January 2002

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

60 participants
295 discussions

Re: Fwd: Re: [B7L] Avon and the System
by Marian de Haan 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Ellynne G. wrote: > > Which is about as far as I've taken it.< Oh, you can't stop it here! I loved it - perfect characterisation. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Geek hierachy
by J MacQueen 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

>From: "Neil Faulkner" <N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net> >Ne, ne, la chevalo ne estas mortinta. Ghi vivos chiame! Au io... Heaven help me, I feel compelled to ask: Go on, the full Dead Parrot sketch in Esperanto. Regards Joanne (I may regret this...) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Jarrigoths
by Helen Atkins 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Is there a photo on the web somewhere? I don't think I'd recognise the character. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Re: [B7L] Avon, Ensor and the System
by Ellynne G. 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:10:03 +1100 "Andrew Williams" <awilliams(a)daikin.com.au> writes: [Big snip of interesting material] > :I think the assumption that 'if it is alien it cannot be known' is > not > :necessarily valid, especially if there are similarities to earth > ways like > :spaceships with seats in them, keyboards, windows, tariel cells and > so > :forth. OK, when I assumed Zen would be incompatible, I made several assumptions. First, I assumed that the computers were advanced enough that a biological model was more appropriate. For example, plants, fungi, and animals all share biological roots from about a billion years ago but have developed in radically different ways. Obviously, some things seem like common solutions. Others don't. Even convergent evolution has limits (ichthysaurs, sharks, and dolphins might lead you to believe their form would be the universal adapation of sea going animals - until you consider tribolytes). But, I was also assuming Orac interacted with the computers on a level at least partially dealing with the equivilant of what had become the computer's cell - and that his ability to do it could be compared, say, to a virus trying to penetrate and take over a larger organism's cell - that the level of involvement and system compatibility had to be fairly high. There are several diseases that are species specific and others that won't effect related species in the same way. So, for example, turnips don't get the flu and birds don't get root rot. If these comparisons are valid (debatable on both points), then I don't see how Orac did it unless the tariel cells had a single origin. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Character ages
by Illandri2＠aol.com 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

> Natasa wrote: > >This means that Blake was leading one of the most influential > >rebel groups on Earth ('the only one that really meant something', as > Foster > >says) at the age of 27. This is rather young for a leader, isn't it? > Oh I don't know. Martin Luther King Jr. was 26 when he called for the Montgomery bus boycott. Zenia

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Re: [B7L] Geek hierachy
by Rita d' Orac 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

--- jacquispeel(a)netscape.net wrote: > "Helen Atkins" <selil66(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > >Nicola, I just wanted you to know I loved the Vila emails. > > > >The truly frightening thing to me is that there are now more people that > >speak Klingon than Esperanto. If anyone ever needed confirmation that > >Esperanto is a dead horse, I think that's it. > > > > > > But the Pope speaks Esperanto. > > Jacqui He might also speak Klingon... ===== rita d'orac "If you think of this mouse as a space captain..." http://www.vilaworld.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/

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Re: The London and the space battle - it seems genuine
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Jacqui offered another explanation - the 'battle' was an illusion created by Zen and wondered if the whole battle could be a means for the Liberator to 'get more crew'? The Liberator could be programmed to do this as part of its self-repair mechanisms ('Damage? Repair it. No crew? Get more.') David The image of the battle seems to reflect a real battle in space. It opens with an image of five items (X's) on the periphery of an area of space . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . /|\ . . . . . . . X . . . . . . .|. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . X . . . . . . .|. X . . . . | | "Our course takes us right through it." - Artix. The image is static. Leylan tells Raiker the blast is coming from the top right-hand section, which is then zoomed in on. The new image is moving. The shot at the end is something like this: _ _ . . . .\. ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . / . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Three comet-like objects are seen in movement. Then a new sort of video is used (+ signs v. dots .), and five objects are seen to be moving. The first shot is: ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | |_| + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + _ + + + + + |_| + + | | _ |_| | | + + |_| + + + + + + + + + | | |L| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| Each |_| is the head of a comet-like object. L is the fastest and the most noticeable. It executes a circular manoeuvre with great speed. The reason for the manoeuvre is not clear. The navigation controls are locked? The lifepods need to be launched while the ship is accelerating? ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + _ + + + + + + + + + + | | |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + _ + + | | |_| | | + + + _ + + + + + + + + + | | |_| |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + + + + + +|L| + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| It does this as two others approach and collide ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + _ + + + + + + + + + | | |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + + + + +|L| + + + | | |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | |_| |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + |_| + + + + + _ + + + | | |_| | | + + _ + + + + + + + + + + | | |_||_| _ | | + + + + + +|L| + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| Having performed its circle, L is back roughly where it started when the collision (X) occurs. ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + _ + + + + |_| + + + | | |_| | | + |X| + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + |L| + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | /-----\ _ | | + / \ + _ + + + + |_| + + + | | | | |_| | | +| |X| | + + + + + + + + + | | | | | | + \ / + + + + + + + + + | | \-----/ | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + |L| + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| One of the colliding ships survives. Five ships have become four. L moves further away from the blast but now in a much straighter course. A dis-abled ship would move in such a fashion. ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + |_| + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + + + + + |_| + + | | _ | | + |_| + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | _ | | + + + + + + + |L| + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| L then disappears off the bottom edge, the edge of the screen closest to the London, leaving only three craft, as shown in the following diagram. Leylan orders the London be taken around the area with a margin of 3 units wide ____________________________________________________________ | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | |_| | | + _ + + + + _ + + + + + + + | | |_| |_| | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | | | | + + + + + + + + + + + + | |____________________________________________________________| | |\ | | \ | |L| | Three | \ | Sub-Secs | \ | / | _| |/ | | | /======>> |London| | | // | | || | | || | "Take us round it, with a three subsec margin from the outer limits of the action." - Leylan London's new course is in effect an about-face because the shock waves that push the presumably disabled Liberator also push the London. In response they both adopt a course directly away from the centre of the action. This makes their courses either parallel or almost parallel and converging. Blake and Avon now do the "You are a civilised man, Avon" scene; the outer hull gets punctured astern; and the vision panels cut out. Blake and Avon then do the Army-Of-Five scene; there is a shock wave in which Nova dies; and Avon knocks out the scanners. Raiker gets the prisoners to surrender. Then they encounter the Liberator. It all seems in accord with the idea that the battle was real, and that the Liberator was damaged in battle. DC

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Avon, Ensor and the System
by Andrew Williams 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Ellynne wrote: >Left to develop on its own, odds are no two groups of computer users would >independently invent it or even invent highly similar and somewhat >compatible programs. So, the question remains, in what ways did the >System interact with the Federation (or, at least, its technology)? By chance, I have just stumbled over an old e-mail from my brother where we were discussing whether an astute programmer like Avon could reprogram alien computer systems such as Zen. I commented to him that perhaps the tariel cell was an "inevitable" development in computer hardware, without which a culture cannot break beyond some limitation (processing power or whatever). The question then became whether the hardware could dictate, or indicate, how the software was designed/embedded/etc so that if Avon understands the hardware he can understand the software, or at least enough of it's rules, to begin decoding & understanding it. It is somewhat related to Ellynne's question, so I thought I would throw his reply into the mix: :Ultimately, I would have to think it is possible because computing has roots :in physical sciences and mathematics - things which are considered :'universal'. : :That is, calculus, for example, was something that was 'observed' or :'discovered' rather than 'invented', because it is something which is just :simply so. This is like gravity - it exists. Surely it exists on other :planets too, because it is a physical law. : :Art, perhaps, may be cultural and perhaps music and literature and the like. :Perhaps other races don't have any concept of art at all, and use non-verbal :forms of communication. : :Yet, despite that, the fundamentals of mathematics must always hold true :regardless of the labels given to arbitrary terms like 'positive' and :'negative'. : :Computing has a basis in mathematics, and indeed, there is a field of :research to verify 'program correctness' which is rooted in mathematics :(which I don't really understand). Ultimately, though, a computer program :must solve atomic logical steps in a linear fashion to provide a solution to :a problem. Surely, even if the hardware and the software differ, the :underlying and fundamental processes remain the same - the alien computer :requires a sequence of instructions to solve a problem. : :If the hardware was similar to Earth technology then this would mean Avon :could recognise various things, such as perhaps the architecture of the :computer - by which I mean not necessarily where the floppy drive is, but :rather how the system works - as in, stack machine, Von Neumann computer, :and other computer science concepts of computer architecture. : :I don't think it's a vast leap from hardware to software in this case - :indeed, if it is known the hardware must be similar in some ways to earth :hardware then the 'alienness' of the issue can be reduced to considering how :one might program, say, a Russian computer, when you only know U.S. :computers. Now, let's consider word processors for a moment - if you know :how to use Word then you can go and use WordPerfect. You might need to work :out which keystrokes or menus are used to access certain functions, but :ultimately, you know what it is capable of doing and what you want to do - :say, justification or line spacing, etc. : :So, if you have a computer that you know operates in a similar fashion to :something you are used to, then even if everything is labelled differently, :you still do have a basic idea of what you want to achieve and the steps :that must be used to go about this. Perhaps if the wiring was similar you :can make presumptions about what various components must be. If Avon had :sample programs he could inspect, run and observe then he could work out the :language used on the computer. This is the way people today do things like :reverse-engineer the ROMs in their Nokia phones, for example. The processor :and machine language of the Nokia is unknown (well, except to Nokia), but :people _have_ downloaded the ROMs and by experimentation been able to break :the machine language and document it. : :I think the assumption that 'if it is alien it cannot be known' is not :necessarily valid, especially if there are similarities to earth ways like :spaceships with seats in them, keyboards, windows, tariel cells and so :forth. : :Perhaps if the computer didn't use a keyboard but telepathy then Avon would :be in trouble, but ultimately because the hardware is familiar in some way, :I would be confident that with perseverance Avon could use what he knows :and what he would expect to happen to work out the software.

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Avon, Ensor and the System
by Andrew Williams 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

Anna wrote: >Given the length of time Dorian spent working on it without success, >teleportation is obviously a tricky problem, and the Federation never >manage to produce functional teleport. Ah, but Dorian was deliberately misdirected by the Seska, because they wanted to build a tele-ergotron in order to steal Scorpio. Also, we don't know how long Dorian had spent working on the teleport (though it was a long time, as Avon scoffed at the idea that Dorian had gone back to basic principles four times). Could the Seska have been "helping" him all along? The episode seems to indicate that it is Pella's personal goal, but perhaps we could argue that it was a goal passed down to her by others. >Since they managed to get tarial cells working decades ago, but not teleport, >I'd say that the connection between the Federation and the System could be more >along the lines of badly damaged spaceship wreckage, from which the tarial cells >and teleport systems were salvaged The Federation seem to have built an enormous anti-matter minefield in order to protect themselves from the Andromedans on the basis of contact with a single scout ship. Surely if they had come across the wreckage of a System vessel they would also take strong measures? Obviously they would want to boost their technology to match this new threat (which agrees with your theory), but surely they would be trying to locate the source of the threat as well?

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Re: [B7L] Re: Character ages
by Ellynne G. 23 Jan '02

23 Jan '02

On Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:50:17 +0000 Murray <mjsmith(a)tcd.ie> writes: > > I always felt that the Federation had got to the stage of believing > that > racial and sexual discrimination were things of the distant past. > Servalan > detested Mellanby for political reasons, not because he was black. > Also, > Servalan's enemies never said that they detested her because she was > a woman. > I'm sorry, I said that wrong. I don't think race in the sense of black, white, etc. means much of anything in the Federation. However, I do think they're racist in the way they regard nonTerrans, nonFederation natives, and nonhumans. If anything, I would guess that Dayna's looks would make someone assume she's from Earth (the fact that she's the only one who ever expresses much concern for passing as a native of any world besides Earth). The racial profiling Hal was concerned about was the discrimination Dayna might face from Earth humans if they thought she was part Sarran. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

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Blakes7 January 2002