Blakes7

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/14/01 7:47:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, stephend999(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << Whilst I can appreciate it on a more sophisticated level now, I still watch it primarily because it has danger and space ships. All of which is entirely a matter of taste and if you enjoy B7 primarily because of the interaction of the characters then good for you ! >> I think this is more an indication of the differences in "male" and "female" viewers than anything else. Yes, females can like the action and the science and yes, the males can like the character interaction... but I think you still find that men tend to like one more than the other (on the whole) and that women go for the character interaction, the *emotions*, more than the action. This is one reason that media fandom, overall, and most fan fiction writers in media fandom, tend to be female. I realize there are always exceptions. Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Tavia Chalcraft 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >One thing that leaps out at me from the scripts, now I've had a chance >to look at them, is how short most of the lines of dialogue are. I haven't >done any statistical research on this, but I wouldn't mind betting that if >you calculated an average number of words per speech for a script >and did the same for a story, the story would come out higher. >Perhaps much higher (depending on the author, probably). >Characters in fanfic say a lot more, use longer sentences, are >generally more 'wordy', or at least that's the impression I get. I think this might be partly the difference between action/adventure (as per series) and character drama (as per much fanfic). Also, the series version had expression, action and body posture to go with the words, while fanfic either writes in all this or settles for a more explanatory style of speech. Length of sentence might well depend on the context (pace). >What I find generally irritating is that the regular characters (especi ally, >but oc's often too) are often nowhere near 'tough' enough. I'm wary >of saying this because I don't want to sound like I'm advocating some >kind of macho manifesto, but they are revolutionary fanatics and/or >criminals, habitually doing dangerous things, seeing unpleasant sights, >forced into making snap decisions that might very well lead to someone >else's death at the expense of their own. And in a lot of fanfic this doesn't >come across -their 'inner voices' sound too 'soft' (another word I'm >very uneasy about using), too preoccupied with 'trivial' things (also a >dangerous label), too concerned with the fragility of their relationships >with one another. This, to me, is the hidden hand of Mary Sue, acting >within the characters themselves. A lot of this might come down to inner vs outer voice, ie the difference between tough exterior and less-tough inner. To put it simplistically, I can see Blake watching a massacre he can do nothing to prevent impassively, yet grieving internally. This is also one explanation for the otherwise inexplicable character shifts in Cally -- Cally the Earth Mother (internal) vs Cally the Warrior (external) -- only being female the scriptwriters allow her to express her inner voice externally. >A lot of this may be because many writers are concerned only with the characters, >not with the milieu. They are not interested in action/adventure plots (a lot of >fanfic might be deliberately repudiating the action/adventure ethos and its tropes, >which is why the characters come across the way they do), and not particularly >interested in science fiction either. It was a real culture shock to me, when I >first entered fandom about 9 years ago, to find that an awful lot of fans weren't into >SF as such. I'd be surprised if this didn't affect the way they write the characters. Action/adventure's pretty dull to read, more suitable for the visual. It's a shame there isn't more science fiction in fanwriting, yet there's so little credible science fiction in the series. Less even than Star Trek. Give me grey B7 over shiny happy ST any day, but they do take up the science fiction challenge a bit more seriously, if in the style of Jules Verne or HG Wells than contemporary SF. Not that I know anything about contemporary SF. Tavia

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Re: fanfic; my zine, plus replies to comments on style
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> > If I find the time, I might well develop her for Helen's new zine, but that > would involve working out her character rather more clearly and > differentiating her from me. > > Tavia "Tavia, the Federation citizen/chorus"-- works for me. What challenges does she face? What were her political feelings like a week before the story begins and what are they at the finish? Has the government been using her whiel keeping some secrets from her? (Seems like a common occurence in the B7 universe... in fact, I am working on a theory that the System was created by a secret Federation attempt to take over its three-world space gone wrong) The Everyperson character in a manipulative world is just the sort of thing I'd love to see. I thought I'd sent off the note where I eplained the Gen-slash thing. I don't mind 'adult situations' as the movie industry calls it, if it works in terms of a greater storyline. I myself was criticized in the one Blake's 7 fanfic I wrote of being too graphic in the violence department-- but as Avon was literally in hell, I had taken cue from Dante's Inferno and it wasn't pretty. I can certainly see that a writer who wants to get Vila to be unusually helpful might give him a love affair as incentive. Once again, I'm looking for new approaches, so while I prefer Gen, if someone wants to write about Servalan's stuggle to rise to power, I can very well see that it might need to be Slash. As with many things, 'gratutious' and 'neccessary'; 'character insight' and 'porn' are a bit subjective and influenced by context. I cannot even predict what my reaction will be to a story until I've seen it. I can only say that when the zine is ready to go, I will be very clear about letting people know what to expect from the stories. > Then again, I'd go for a zine with twenty different authors' versions of > Jarriere - as long as they were well written. Or Sarkoff. Or Hal > Mellanby, or Kasabi. Okay, Mistral, get to work. <g> > If you allow one main character, or tiny appearances by the crew as a > whole, I think there might be enough support for a zine like Helen's > suggested. And have allowed for that. Re: Totally different comments on fanfic, writing the characters in a way that reflects the people on screen: > But if you ask me, food, clothes, and gossip are a lot more interesting than > neutron blasters. When your life may depend on whether the neutron blasters fire, then they become compellingly fascinating. > How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being > "non-verbal." It just doesn't work. The writer communicates verbally about the characters non-verbal communication. (after Vila makes a cutting remark) "Avon stood so close to Vila he was an inch away from treading on the thief's toes. Suddenly, he flashed a broad grin, then turned and walked away." I started to write out the translation of what Avon's body language was saying to Vila, then realised doing so would undermine myself. If I felt the meaning was still unclear, as a writer,I could add Vila's mental processing. "How does he do it! Must be a cold-blooded bastard. I'd swear from the look in his eye he was about to space me, but then he grins. He tolerates me 'cause he knows I'm funny. Frankly, he could do with a *lot* more humour, not that he'll ever admit it. And I'm not going to chance my safety by playing funny man any more today. Wonder if anyone would notice if I mix up a little cocktail in the medbay?"

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

About verbal/nonverbal communication. 1) Both major parts of communication. 2) Interestingly, processed in different parts of the brain. People with damage to the left brain are generally far more reliant on verbal communication (some exclusively). I've also read of a recent study where people with verbal processing problems were proved to be far more likely to tell if someone was lying or not (the researcher said he got interested when a group he worked with kept laughing during a presidential debate a few years back). 3) Read an essay by Patricia McKillip a few years back where she discussed something about this. Character A wants to put a love spell on character B. Before you can write this, she said, you have to decide what you mean by love. 4) I was thinking of this a bit in a story I wrote where Cally kept getting frustrated because of the difficulties she has communicating with humans. Part of it's cultural - they keep assuming she can process the information they give her in the same way even though she lacks the cultural background (a Federation citizen, for example, would know what penalties a person would face for things Cally might not realize were crimes). But it also works the other way. Not only is there a nonverbal language that's subtly different from hers, she should be used to telepathic cues no one ever gives. Imagine talking to someone who gives _no_ nonverbal cues, not even tone or inflection. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] earth mothers, Patriarchy et al
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

This would be a good point in the subject of discussion to *strongly* recommend any and all works written by Barbara G. Walker (check Amazon.com, your local bookstore, etc.). Not only easy, entertaining reading, but it can literally change the way you view the world around you, overnight. Rather like waking up for the first time in your life. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-autho… alker%2C%20Barbara%20G./104-6013493-1959918

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/13/01 11:49:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, ijc(a)bas.ac.uk writes: << This is because a book is like a cake and a script is like a recipe for a cake. A script which actually contained all the worked-out detail of a finished artistic product would look hellishly overwritten, with nothing for the director or performers to do. >> Ooh, great metaphor! Well worth remembering for future reference. Leah

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Feelings in Space (was liking character)
by Stephen Date 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

I suppose if you take this business about wanting to explore the characters feelings too far you could end up with something like this.... The Kerr Avon Diary 14th June 250 N.C. Cigs 0 (v.g.) Glasses of Wine 6 (must stop drinking with Vila) Weight 12 st. (but can still fit into red leather trousers) Blake was totally unreasonable this morning. First he flies us out to the outer edge of the galaxy, then I overheard him gossiping in the teleport with that Stannis woman. Frankly I was tempted to walk out once and for all but thought better of it. Heroically rescued the entire crew from the Federation. Poor darling had been forced to work in a mine and looked very yummy in manner of D.H. Lawrence novel. Did I get any thanks for saving them ? Oh no. I should have stayed with Anna, I could always rely on her. Hmm. On the other hand, perhaps not. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Alison Page 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Annie said - >I can only say again that non-verbal communication does not a good story >make... in fact, under most circumstances, it makes for a stultifyingly >boring story with characters that are next to impossible for the reader to >relate to. > >How can you write in a purely "verbal," communicating medium by being >"non-verbal." It just doesn't work. > Wow. I honestly believe that there is some vast gulf of what writers and readers want, and that if you are on the other side of it, you just don't understand the other. every single sentiment in what Annie says is the exact *opposite* of what I believe about fiction. But I know that all those statements are true for Annie, and I am grateful to read them so clearly and forthrightly expressed. it has convinced me that people with opposing views will just have to relax about it all, and accept that there will be this whole bunch of stuff they can't ever get on with at all. That applies to both sides. It's as if we are talking a different language: but confusingly a different language with the same words in it :-) I also think there are more fanfic writers with Annie's view. Sad for me - because it means there is less that I like to read, and fewer people who will like what I write. Of course it isn't sad *really* as it means that there is all this stuff being happily read and written, by people who are on exactly the same wavelength. Alison

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Re: subject line goof
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> <awestruck> No, I have nothing to add to this other than declaring it the > winner of the longest subject line that this person has ever seen. > Congratulations, Helen! <grin> > > Regards > Joanne Other people accidentally hit 'reply all'; I copy and paste things into my subject line sometimes. Thought I caught it before I sent it... but given the number of times I have had to correct that before sending, I suppose my average isn't bad. <g>

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:52:42 -0700 Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> writes: > Ashton7(a)aol.com wrote: > > > Exactly! That was my point. You can't write a short story or a > novel the same > > way that a script is written. You can attempt to make the story > "visual," in > > a sense, but if you try to duplicate a script, you're going to end > up with a > > badly written piece of fiction. > If anyone's read the couple of 'new' Agatha Christy novels ("Black Coffee" and something else I forget), they do this a little. There supposed to be adaptations of scripts she wrote, and the characters seem to say things that fit a play but that Christy would normally have left in narration in her books. It can be hard to write when a character's tendencies don't match the author's. A lot of Avon's conversation is supposed to be the briefest route possible to convey the full weight of his scorn, wit, and lack of desire to continue the conversation. Not recommended to the faint of heart or, alas, the long of wind. Ellynne Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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