Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Re: fanfic; proposed zine
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> Do crossovers count? I mean, crossovers without the main B7 characters, > but with the main characters from somewhere else...? > > Kathryn Andersen That should be all right, I think, in that it would keep with the goal of getting less-tried character interactions. I would prefer to see Winston from 1984 than, say, Luke Skywalker; but I would not rule out Luke Skywalker if the writer dealt with getting him there from long ago and a galaxy far away, and then used his empathic abilities to introduce him to Auron society and explore the Auron philosophy. More likely, I suppose would be a submission of "Jenna In Wonderland". I don't see why not, as long as it's either a universe well enough known that the majority of readers will probably 'get it', or conversely, little known, but well handled enough that for all we don't even need to know it's a crossover to understand and enjoy. > (who has an idea, but too many other commitments...) Do tell? Oh, and if anyone sends me a Buffyverse/Blake's7 crossover, I think I'd rather see it go to the specialized realm of Staked Blake. And on the matter of Mary Sues... I don't mind a tough-as-nails, attractive, competent OFC woman in a story. In fact I'd like to see some. Avoid saccharine, and I won't say 'Mary Sue'.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Fanfic
by Ellynne G. 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:00:31 -0700 Betty Ragan <ragan(a)sdc.org> writes: > Ellynne G. wrote: > > > . . . .Avon's sort of dead. . . . > > *Sort of* dead? How do you manage that? ;) > The story starts from Avon's POV. Only at the end of that scene do you really find out what other characters think has been going on - and it seriously throws into question what's going on with 'Avon.' Then, you switch to another scene taking place at about the same time where Cally has just woken up from a nightmare that seems to give some weight to the Avon POV in the last scene - except she's with Avon (oops, sorry, AU where Cally and Avon are married). Only, this Avon's response to her dream seems to suggest it means more to him than it does to her. Switch to a scene with Soolin. It's PGP and she has hooked up with Grant, who has been leading most of the fighting resistance against the Federation since Blake died (and Albion was overrun). Soolin thinks of Avon as dead - even when he shows up leading Federation forces. Hopefully, if I can ever get past this middle part where I've been stuck for ages, I can prove that these are not all mutually incompatible scenarios (no, no one has been cloning Avon. There has been and can only be one of him). Oh, and a very intelligent alien female (telepathic and gifted with languages) does show up. Nothing else was going to survive through the first chapter in this story. However, maybe the time has come to put her in a coma while the rest of the characters unravel this mess . . . . Like I said, I've been stuck for a bit. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/13/01 11:49:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, ijc(a)bas.ac.uk writes: << This is because a book is like a cake and a script is like a recipe for a cake. A script which actually contained all the worked-out detail of a finished artistic product would look hellishly overwritten, with nothing for the director or performers to do. >> Exactly! That was my point. You can't write a short story or a novel the same way that a script is written. You can attempt to make the story "visual," in a sense, but if you try to duplicate a script, you're going to end up with a badly written piece of fiction. Annie

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Alison Page 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Your point is very well taken Natasa, and perhaps sums up for me why I could never describe myself as a 'character junkie' because I simply don't enjoy reading passages like the imaginary one you gave. >If someone maintains that Vila is a sage behind his clownish mask, that's >fine with me. If the above paragraph were his stream of consciousness, I >don't think I would complain. I think you are being too kind here, though. On the other hand - who knows what people are like 'inside their heads'. I have a problem in that most of what I do inside is non-verbal, which is why I am so often groping for terms and names. However many linguistic philosophers claim that thought is entirely couched in verbal terms, and perhaps this is for them an accurate representation of how they experience their own internal life. Perhaps this explains why people (like me) are so prone to use ellipses, disjointed phrases, repetition etc. Stylistically I am doing it to try to convey in verbal terms a non-verbal experience. Uhh.. I guess. Alison

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Re: (was Deliverance) male and female principles, for lack of a better subject header
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> Earth and water are feminine elements, both for the Chinese and the Celts. > And both cultures may have links. No? I was doing some research on snakes in mythology and their symboloism in Celtic and India lore was reinforced by how strongly similiar the art conventions seemd to be. Prehistoric man was very mobile; I'm not ruling out any cross-cultural influences on account of geography. But I wasn't arguing against Earth-goddess concepts. Just saying that technology/male; environment/female is a traditional dichotomy in the culture we are in. There are also good statistical and historic reasons for technology to be associated with males, but that ignores individual variations. I am Green Party, so obviously I respect the environment. Religiously, I think God or Goddess, no spiritual being has genitalia to worry about. As a metaphor for female empowerment, I do like goddess-figures in artwork.

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Re: Patriarchy (was Deliverance)
by Sarah Thompson 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> Fiona wrote: > >Well, there are a fair few female persons in positions of power in UK > >society, too, and that doesn't make it any less patriarchal-- just as > having > >some African-Americans in positions of power does not make the US any less > >racially stratified. IMO, anyway... Re: the second half of that, yes. Particularly considering that the African American currently in the position of greatest power got there by (a) orchestrating the killing of thousands of Asians a few decades back, and (b) condoning the systematic disenfranchisement of thousands of his own people by the party that put him in power. I would also like to point out in our defense that there has been vast improvement in this regard over the past eight years, under the Clinton administration, which IMO is precisely why the Republicans hate Clinton with such a crazed passion that they have to make up wild lies about him, such as we've recently heard from Ellynne (more about that, with suitable B7 references, later). Compare Bush Jr.'s cabinet to Bush Sr.'s and you see the difference that Clinton made-- today the Republicans have to put in far more token blacks and token women to try to give the impression that they're not biased . Of course, as we all learned from Margaret Thatcher, an individual from one of the traditional out groups can be as nasty as any white male once in power. Re: the first half, Tavia added: > > That's entirely different. There's good evidence that UK society was > overtly patriarchal less than 100 years ago, and so one needs a reasonable > mass of evidence to counter the idea of it being so today. (Leaving open > the question of whether it is or not.) Yes, clearly things have improved a lot in this respect, in the UK and elsewhere, so the question is more a matter of where you draw the line and say "OK, it's not a patriarchy any more." Does that mean no gender-based discrimination at all? Or only a little, perhaps? Another thought about Deliverance: do we know for sure that Meegat even wanted to be a priestess and Messiah-greeter? Maybe she didn't, but was chosen by lot and agreed to do her duty. Maybe the reason she looks so happy to see Avon is that now that the Messiah has arrived, she will soon be off the hook of obligation and can go and do whatever else she may have had in mind-- marrying her true love, perhaps, and/or pursuing some exciting activity that she had had to set aside to be a priestess. Re: the idea that technology, as personified by Avon in Deliverance, is a masculine quality: but what about the scenes with Vila and the huntresses in "Powerplay," and of course the infamous "Power"? In both of those episodes we see a male/female social split, but with the women associated with the technological side. Sarah T.

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Re: Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance, Gender and Technology
by Fiona Moore 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> --- Natasa Tucev <tucev(a)tesla.rcub.bg.ac.yu> wrote: > > > Helen wrote: > > > > Many people who feel technology without philosphy > > is > > >ruining the planet like to embrace goddess-worship > > as part of their > > >world view, which suggests even most rebels against > > society are buying > > >into the technical/man-- emotional/woman dichotomy > > of the mainstream > > >culture. (This ties in with the thread about how > > even rebelling from the > > >culture, we a shaped by it). > > > > I don't agree. I don't think there's anything > > sexist, or culturally > > prejudiced, in seeing Earth as feminine. Ask Ellynne > > or Fiona and I think > > they will agree that numerous mythologies throughout > > the world which haven't > > had any interaction with each other view the Earth > > as such. Earth is mother. You're quite right here; offhand I can't think of a single society in which the Earth *isn't* seen as feminine (although interestingly the sea is seen as male by the ancient Greeks, IIRC). And I should also add that to believe in an earth goddess is not necessarily to be a new-age eco-rebel (e.g., as you point out, the Chinese have one). > > On the other hand, I feel that very often feminists > > are missing the point, > > fighting for women's right to fill the positions > > which were previously > > filled by men, within the structures which still > > remain essentially governed > > by the masculine principle. I agree with you completely here (even as I compete for a job in a still-mostly-male profession... sigh). However, I have hope that we may someday achieve gender equality-- it *is* getting easier for men to do traditionally "feminine" activities, which is my personal benchmark. Fiona The Posthumous Memoirs of Secretary Rontane Available for public perusal at http://nyder.r67.net _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: Deliverance
by Helen Krummenacker 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

> That "Probably" sounded pretty definite to me :). Anyway, you don't *enjoy* > embarrassment, do you, even probably? Um, yes, sometimes. After I make a dirty joke, I blush bright red, hide my face in my hands, but I'm also a little proud I had the guts to say it. When someone gives me praise I don't deserve I feel awkward and want to slink off, but I'm also aware I'm supposed to like being praised so I teeter between wanting to vanish and being kind of happy they think I'm great. Even when I'm *not* enjoying myself a bit, I react to embarrassment usually by grinning, which confuses the people around me about my emotions.

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Re: Re: etc Deliverance
by jan b 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

What I said really wasn't intended to be snide, although I can see now how it sounded that way. I'm sorry. Yes, I admit I'm out of my depth. No, don't enjoy embarrassment. And yes I have missed the etiquette of the lyst. Once again, I apologise. Nothing I said was intended to offend or have hidden meanings. Jan _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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RE: [B7L] Patriarchy (Was: Deliverance)
by Tavia Chalcraft 14 Feb '01

14 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: >Well, there are a fair few female persons in positions of power in UK >society, too, and that doesn't make it any less patriarchal-- just as having >some African-Americans in positions of power does not make the US any less >racially stratified. IMO, anyway... That's entirely different. There's good evidence that UK society was overtly patriarchal less than 100 years ago, and so one needs a reasonable mass of evidence to counter the idea of it being so today. (Leaving open the question of whether it is or not.) In B7 times, we don't know much about the history between their present day and ours, so the question is a good deal more open and smaller amounts of evidence might be assumed to settle it against patriarchy. Tavia

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