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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Leadership-- Cally
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:09:50 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> writes: > > > I see her as being perfectly willing to follow someone who is > working > *for the cause*, and thus, it was perfectly sensible for her to go > along > with Blake's leadership in most situations. But when Blake > disappeared, > it is Cally the good-natured mystic rather than Cally-the-warrior > (whom > I prefer) Agreed. I think Cally found herself somewhat at loose ends. She couldn't go back to Auron and, for whatever reasons, couldn't or wouldn't move on to another group. What I find interesting is that, when she did oppose something, it was often _just_ her. She asked Avon if that meant _she_ was just following orders - not _they_. Even when she convinced them to go to Auron, she was the catalyst, not the leader. > Jenna, however, was not in a position to be likely to become a > long-term > leader. She seems to prefer being a team player. I always thought of her as having been captain of her own ship before the London, but that's noncanonical. Being an expert > smuggler does not necessarily make one a leader, and even when she > clashed with Avon, it was on loyalty to the team over opportunism. True. I was going to argue she was more prone to a 'we' outlook than Cally, but this could be argued as team-speak, just as it could be argued Cally's language reflected potentially leading the group instead of being part of the herd. I still think of her as the stronger, more dominant personality type than Cally. Cally could have bossed Vila around. Dayna was young and in a very alien environment. If she had any sense, she'd let Cally take the lead. Tarrant? Despite his clashes with Avon, I think his military discipline would have made him accept whoever the ship 'belonged' to. He might have egotistically thought of himself as her more capable advisor (he does have an ego problem, after all) but he would have generally given way. Eventually. I just don't think Cally would have liked it. I give it two weeks before she offers to pay Tarrant off and starts checking the phone book for any relatives of Dayna. Ellynne Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Heavy (was: Subtext vs Character)
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Penny wrote: <If not primarily the accent, what specifically about T2 strikes you as (attempting to be) "heavier" than T1? (Please note how I restrain myself from cheap shots regarding relative waist measurements)> Why do you think I put *in* the wannabe? Someone should have fed him more. Hunting Blakes is hard work for a not-growing-any-more lad (just ask Avon). 'Tis the way he tries soooooo hard to be menacing and intimidating (the way T1 managed seemingly as naturally as breathing) and just - just - *isn't* (and it isn't only Hostage, goodness knows he has a nerve calling My Gnome a powderpuff in Gambit). Sorry, dear, but Travis 2 just *isn't* Blake's equal and it shows, painfully. OTOH, I *still* like Travis 2 in Trial, bits of Pressure Point and, yes Gambit. Maybe in The Keeper, though I don't like *it*. Not in Star One, I'm afraid. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: <I've seen "Julius Caesar" played totally straight by BBC actors dressed as ancient Roman aristocrats, and I've seen it played by an alternative theatre company who portrayed all the charactes as working-class Chicago mobsters.> But have you seen the two mixed up and played with characters from both thrown together and pretending they didn't notice? That's the crucial point here for me - Brian Croucher wasn't playing the same character in a different production, but a different character in *the same* production. Bit like the soapie characters who go to bed with one face and wake up with another, and no one's supposed to see the difference ... <I also find your interpretation of Travis II a bit disturbing. So just because he has a regional accent, he's automatically a thug who has worked his way up through the ranks?> S'not just (or even mostly) the accident. His whole demeanour and aura is more as a heavy (or heavy wannabe, he's really not *as* menacing IMO). With the exception of the rather lighter leather outfit and that mouth. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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re: Deliverance and Jan B
by Nathan Hook 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

> >Jan, you forgot something with regards to Avon being the natural choice. >the nose. That big Roman nose of his is a blatent phallic symbol. How could meegat resist, he was clearly the only one fully qualified to fire the rocket off. Gan was big everywhere, but where it counted. >Nayte. > > >'A lady of a "certain age", which means/ Certainly aged.'Byron. 'A lady of a "certain age", which means/ Certainly aged.'Byron. ------------------------------------------------------------ Free, BeOS-friendly email accounts: http://BeMail.org/ love and pixels .:. http://dieselsweeties.com/

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Re: Matriarchs (was Re: [B7L] Further to the last post)
by Pherber＠aol.com 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Kat: > > Why do I suddenly recall that thread about Avon's Aunts? Ellynne: > I admit, I was thinking of them, all six of them, what one text defines > as "a suffocation of aunts," the kind of people who make meeting Travis > in a dark alley seem like a good thing . . . . Hmm...yes, meeting Auntie Diana in a dark alley would probably give even Travis palpitations! <g> Nina

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Sally Manton 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Tavia wrote: <Yeah, real life's complicated, messy, often dull &c &c, but can't one try to come up with a fictional version that reflects this, whilst cutting out some degree of the dull bits?> but the dull bits are what makes it real life ... I don't mean that one should try to make it true to life, of course, but fiction *is* really an artificial construct, born of one or more people's ideas and imaginations - all of it, the ideas and themes and background as much as the characters if not more. That's exactly how it should be, that's what *makes* it work. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: characters vs interesting stuff
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:36:59 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> writes: > In fact, I became a Blake's 7 addict watching it on a black & white > screen full of 'snow' You too? > I gave up on Star Trek because the characters didn't seem to > develop. Sure they did. Didn't you notice them getting flatter? (the last is a joke. Mostly. Nearly. Well . . . .) Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

On Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:54:39 -0700 Helen Krummenacker <avona(a)jps.net> writes: > > and at the end, on board > > the Liberator, he shows more concern for the rocket's future than > hers. > > > Well... > the rocket is full of very old machinery and potential life, Since they had just dealt with a rocket that didn't have this problem, I can personally allow the assumption that Avon found the operator's manual and read the part that covered this. > But, > if you look for hidden ideology, this does seem to be an anti-choice > position built into the script. Meeghat doesn't ask to be rescued, > but > then, as a 'good religious woman', she would not put her health > above > the potential life entrust to her. Well, it's also the survival of her entire species, probably they're only chance if they're low numbers are caused by cumulative genetic damage, worse than Down Winders. But then, I'm strongly against casual abortion. Besides, I don't think the Down Winders would be much happier if the radiation they were exposed to had only damaged their _potential_ children - but I wonder if it would be easier if they knew the damage wouldn't go on for generations? Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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This and That
by Ellynne G. 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

Bunches of stray thoughts started by trying to read all the posts at once. Hal Melanby: Liked him, wish he'd survived along with the other daughter. The ethnic issues: the fact about Hal being a scientist didn't bother me, but the discussion reminded me that there were times when shows seem to stop and _remind_ you that they're portraying people as equals. Self conscious and artistically weak, but beats several alternatives. Kind of reminds me of what someone once said about group shows, you have the hero and his gang of sidekicks. The sidekicks vary, but they may include the brainy guy, the comic relief guy, the vain guy, and (let us never forget) the girl guy. Having one of them portrayed as nonWASP isn't bad, but I was never quite comfortable with when they _just_ added a 'minority guy' whose _only_, distinguishing characteristic was guess what? I mean, isn't the point to make this a nonissue? Aztecs vs Mayans: I'm sure I could list a few differences, but let's concentrate on the recorded instance of the Mayan woman who was going to be sacrificed and, when the priest instructed her what to tell the gods, told him (rather rudely, I believe) that she wasn't going to tell the gods any such thing for people who were going to kill her. They tried to talk her into being reasonable but, when she wouldn't change her mind, they let her go (I don't know what it says about me, but I've always had a warm spot for the Mayans). Trust me, the Aztecs wouldn't have done it. Please note that this would also make a good out for Vila if he was ever captured by people intending to sacrifice him (can't quite see it working for one of the others). By the way, I do wish writers would ease off on the demonization of Christians. Good grief, if they treated _any_ other group this way . . . . Although, despite its deliberate mimicry of the sacrament, Cygnus Alpha may have been too silly to take as serious religion bashing. I guess I could add fire to the Meegat debate and say it had nothing to do with gender, it was portraying religion as something for the simple minded . . . nah. Death rates in nontech societies. Yes, they're higher, but not necessarily because life is cheap. We're talking medicine is expensive (or unavailable). In ancient Greece, wasn't the man regarded as the happiest in their history a particular fellow whose children and grandchildren all lived? There were areas in 19th century America where 60% of children died before the age of 6. And I knew a woman who worked as a nurse in South America about twenty years ago who described the heartache of convincing parents to seek help for their sick children - not because they didn't _care_ but because they'd grown up thinking of these things as ones they couldn't change. Can't think of a B7 tie in on that one, except that Blake seems remarkably free of fatalism (till Blake). OTOH, seems like there are plenty of people who are willing to tell those they deem 'more primitive' how they need to change and be enlightened. Of course, in the U.S., we call these political parties. Still, it can get out of hand (not that I'm bringing up the ethics of Blake's fight, again, no sirree). Seemed like I started this with more stray thoughts, but I seem to have lost them. Probably just as well, so I'll call it quits. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: [B7L] Characters vs other interesting stuff
by Tavia Chalcraft 08 Feb '01

08 Feb '01

In B7 terms I admit, I'm a character junkie. However, this may be largely because one has to delve deeply (invent?) to come up with very much else. The (potentially interesting) political and economic background to the Federation is largely ignored. The technology is 1970s, with a few alien and unexplained gadgets thrown in. The few interesting inventions (eg mutoids) are unexplained. The physical background is either a walnut veneer & leatherette flightdeck or quarry/powerstation of the week. While there may be some degree of 'ideological subtext', whatever that means, in some episodes, it rarely seems to say anything very interesting. (If Deliverance is *about* gender stereotyping or whatever, then what of interest does it have to say to me, here and now ?) Tavia

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