Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] liking 'character' (OT)
by Tavia Chalcraft 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Alison and Penny: >>But in real life if they >>are confronted with a black person who (say) explains quantum mechanics to >>them, they don't have this escape do they? Real life puts a bomb under >>preconceptions. >I don't think it usually works that way. Sincere belief is impervious to >both logic and empirical evidence. In real people you can always find real flaws >(maybe your hypothetical black genius has an unpleasant odour--then >hypothetically racist me can think "so 'They' *can* be quite clever, but >only at the cost of personal hygiene...I shudder to think what her house >must look like and just imagine her poor neglected children--we should >really discourage 'Them' aspiring to such heights if these are the social >costs" etc.). I once overheard some conversation from a racist at a conference. He said repeatedly that -- in his experience of working in research establishments in Zimbabwe -- negroes were incapable of scientific thought, while Indians could make good scientists. He talked of numerous specific (negro) individuals in scientific positions who in his opinion were incapable of doing their job, ie, he wasn't talking in the abstract he was extrapolating from real experience with real people. Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Subtext vs Character, or would Mr Humphries have pushed the right buttons?
by Natasa Tucev 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: Frankly, once you get >down to the areas of biology that culture cannot reach, reason doesn't enter >into it. No, but maybe your instincts or feelings can give some feedback to your reason, when your reason cannot help or when you just don't have enough data to quarrel with your culture efficiently. This is why I like the story about Blake so much. Blake was brainwashed and his knowledge, his political philosophy, his past experience - everything that could rationally suggest to him that the Federation was wrong and that it should be opposed - was gone. But he was still human. The conditioning couldn't get that far. He still loved his family and was ready to transgress the law, go outside the dome, because of them. This was the standpoint from which he was able to resist his conditioning. Pure bodily resistance to a culture is I think also possible - like in the novel 'Life and Times of Michael K.', where the hero, a retarded African, throws up all the food he is given in the prison camp. The only food he can eat are the pumpkins he grows on his farm and which he calls 'the food of freedom'. (You can compare this to Blake who, because of his conditioning, does not recognize 'the food of freedom' and spits the water he's tasted outside the dome. This is the first sign to us that something is wrong with him.) >> Winston's mother conveys a very important notion in the book. The >governing >> ideology of Winston's world claims that one's greatest loyalties should >lie >> with the state, Party and Big Brother. Winston's mother was able to resist >> this system, not because she was well educated in history or politics, but >> because she gave supremacy to her private loyalties - her family and >> children. This is a very primitive, un-intellectual notion, but it >actually >> implies a way to remain human. > >OK, but I wouldn't call that resistance. Again, this is *withdrawal*-- >Winston's mother refuses to engage with her society, withdrawing into her >family, rather than resisting it. OK, so she isn't a Blakish-style revolutionary. But I wasn't talking about that. Before you try with revolutions, reforms, concrete attempts to change your culture, you have to be aware that something is wrong with it in the first place. If you are completely trapped within your social and cultural role, completely blinded by your culture's ideology, then you can't even see what you ought to fight against. Winston's mother found a successful way of resisting such complete brainwashing, such complete submergence into the system. By 'resistance' I mean resisting the attempts of your culture to possess you completely. Winston is, however, incapable of resisting his >> culture by resorting to this same instinctive, emotional core of his >being, >> because the inhuman society in which he lives has conditioned him too >> thoroughly: when, after a bombing, he sees a human hand in the street, he >> simply kicks it aside. > >The idea, IIRC, is that it is beaten out of him, but reawakens when he meets >Julia-- but is then beaten out of him again. Orwell's point seems to be that >even love cannot withstand the type of brutality which the state is using. Not exactly. Winston fails as a human being even before he's arrested. Remember when he declares he is ready to do anything to bring down the Party - kill hundreds of innocent people, distribute habit-forming drugs, spread venereal diseases, throw acid in a child's face, if need be? He wants to fight the system, but the system has already transformed him and defeated him completely. Proles, on the other hand, are incapable of starting an effective rebellion, but they keep the human heritage alive. For Orwell, this is a very important notion and therein lies the only hope in the book. N.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Sally wrote: >After Dayna wrote: ><Well, yes. But IMO, this one was very well adapted for Avon (presumably by Chris Boucher?), and "Animals" didn't work in large part precisely *because* it didn't fit with Dayna in Cally's role (sorry, Una!).> >Agreed, Deliverance *was* well adapted - non eof Avon's lines come over as Blake-ish, and Vila's chorus bit (which would *never* have been the same had it been Blake) has clearly been expanded. You'd never know from the episode that there was such a big last-minute change.< Does anyone know how "last minute" the change was? And I've heard two versions about the reason for the change: 1) Blake had to be the one to go after Orac and couldn't do that if he was sick from the radiation. 2) Gareth Thomas was unavailable for the shooting. Of course, both reasons can have applied. >Animals ... umm, well, Dayna does have all those very Cally-ish lines, and that relationship with <shudder> Justin ...< Frankly, I think the story wouldn't have worked with Cally either. Marian

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Re: [B7L] Paul Darrow & B7 movie
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Nicoline wrote: >A friend just told me that Paul Darrow was interviewed on Dutch tv (Veronica) last week, apparently talking about the B7 movie. She doesn't know any details. Has anybody else seen it?< It was the week before last. I didn't see it but heard about it from a colleague. She'd been zapping and when she heard the name Avon, she stopped to watch, knowing about my obsession. (I've got very nice colleagues.) Regrettably she didn't have a videotape ready to record it. The program was about "parties of international allure". (Apparently the TV crew in question have managed to persuade their boss to dosh out money for letting them cover posh parties all over the world.) My collegue didn't catch which party this was. I think it may have been the premiere of Xmen, for I know that Paul was there and did talk about the B7 movie, but that's just a guess. Marian

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Re: Subtext vs Character
by Marian de Haan 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

To me characters and plot are equally important. Good character interaction can't save a bad plot and out-of-character presentation of our heroes will ruin the most brilliant plot. It's the high quality of most of the fanfiction that I've read which led me to the supposition that discerning editors would have rejected a fair amount of the B7 scripts if they'd been submitted to them as fanfiction :-) Marian

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Storm Warning Review
by Judith Proctor 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

I managed this with the aid of the dictation software, but my voice is horribly croaky now (chatting to too many fans yesterday - but I enjoyed it too much to regret it) Storm Warning -- review by Judith Proctor On the 5th October 1930, the airship R-101 left Cardington bound for India. She had been lengthened and modified because the original design was unstable. Rough weather and engine trouble forced her to low altitude, and over northern France witnesses saw it pitch and roll, then dive, strike the ground, and catch fire. Just six passengers out of 54 survived. Among the dead were members of the craft's design team and Lord Thompson of Cardington, the Secretary of State for Air. In the Doctor Who universe, things happened only a little differently. The Tardis lands onboard R-101 and the Doctor promptly teams up with Charley, played by India Fisher, a high-spirited young Edwardian adeventuress. (It is positively amazing how quickly new companions learned to trust the Doctor. Obviously some strange mental power of his.) Charley insert after with Charley is an enjoyable, if somewhat predictable, companion. After all, it is no longer PC to have female companions who get scared easily and scream. Also onboard the R-101 is Lord Tamworth, the Minister for Air, ably played by Gareth Thomas. At first I thought Tamworth was going to be a cliché character, but in fact I was pleasantly surprised. Lord Tamworth turns out have depths to him, and was able to surprise me. I found when listening to the CD for the second time, that I was able to interpret many of his actions in a completely different light, knowing the way that the story was to develop. Paul McGann plays the Doctor in this adventure. Having been severely disappointed in the Doctor Who TV movie, I was a little apprehensive as to how the CD would turn out. However, it has to be said that Paul McGann was the best thing in the movie -- I enjoyed his performance even when I thought the plot sucked. I needn't have worried, the plot here is excellent and I like McGann's Doctor. The story held together with no obvious loopholes, there were interesting twists and turns, mysteries and a suitably climatic ending to the story. Who is the mysterious passenger in cabin 43? What is Lord Tamworth planning? Does Rathbone have a secret agenda? Are Frayling's worries about the R-101's safety justified? What is the connection between all of the above and the ancient triskelion symbol? It's an enjoyable story. I've listened to it twice already, and will probably listen to it again. I find there are yourself is three good ways to listen to audios. The first is while sitting in a comfy chair and relaxing; the second is while washing the dishes; and the third is on a Walkman while I am walking into Oxfam on a Tuesday morning. By way of comparison, I only ever managed to listen to The Sevenfold Crown once. Gareth puts in an enjoyable performance wake-up as Lord Tamworth including an interesting scene that could be straight out of a Boy's Own comic (to say more would be to give away a major element of the plot). I'm not sure if I believed it totally <grin> but I did enjoy it. My favourite minor character is undoubtedly Ramsay -- I think there is a fair chance that Ramsay, along with Charley, will appear in future Paul McGann CDs. Who's Ramsay? Find out for yourselves... I have a pretty clear mental picture as to what Ramsay looks like. The sound effects are excellent. I didn't miss the visual element, I could see quite clearly in my head what was happening. This was aided by the quality of the writing. The only slightly weak point was the Doctor's opening monologue. It's quickly clear why Doctors need companions; there has to be someone for them to explain everything to. When he is talking to himself, it can carry less conviction. I've listened to several Big Finish productions since I initially listened to The Fearmonger (with Jacqueline Pearce). I've come to the conclusion that the productions written direct for audio work out better than those adapted from books. The book adaptations often have points when I feel that I'm missing something. There are no actual gaps in the plot, but I'm aware that I'm missing out on background detail. There are characters whom I'm sure played a larger role in the original story. This doesn't happen in the director for audio stories -- they are written as complete adventures in themselves, and the number of characters and the pacing suit the audio medium. This story was written by Alan Barnes. Apart from the opening monologue (which would admittedly have been difficult to do in any other way) he manages to very effectively convey the visual elements of a scene, without resorting to over-obvious dialogue. Virtually my only complaint about the entire production (and the same thing annoyed me about The Fearmonger) is that the track numbers for the beginning of each episode are not given. Each of the four episodes runs for about half an hour, and this works well as it gives natural break points. I just find it irritating when returning to listen to the second episode on a CD to have to try and remember whether it begins on track six or on track seven. Overall, I highly recommend this production. I only wish someone would give Big Finish the rights to produce Blake's 7 audio. I'm sure they'd do better than the BBC did. You can buy Storm Warning from http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 and I'll also have some copies for sale at Redemption. -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Brian Croucher
by Judith Proctor 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Brian Croucher is directing 'Danny and the Deep Blue Sea' - a play written by John Patrick Shanlee, at The Old Red Lion, St John's St N1, London. playing now, continues until Feb 17 box office 418 St John's St, EC14 4NJ, London tel 0207 8377816 price 10 pounds, 8 pounds concession, no concessions Friday and Saturday. Performances Tuesday to Sunday. The play is about two no-hopers and is set in New York. It had a great review in Time-Out magazine. I'll have a bit more information and hopefully a picture in a day or two as they've promised to send me a brochure. Thanks to Alan Stevens for the above information. Judith -- http://www.hermit.org/Blakes7 - Fanzines for Blake's 7, B7 Filk songs, pictures, news, Conventions past and present, Blake's 7 fan clubs, Gareth Thomas, etc. (also non-Blake's 7 zines at http://www.knightwriter.org ) Redemption '01 23-25 Feb 2001 http://www.smof.com/redemption/

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Re: [B7L] characters vs interesting stuff
by Sally Manton 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <And you still haven't answered my question: Why the *characters*?> That's probably tougher to explain than it should be, actually. I know that of the other TV shows that I'd call my favourites, characters actually *aren't* in the central place they take in B7; important, yes, but I wouldn't call myself a 'character junkie' for them (OTOH, I don't love them the way I love B7. Go figure). And it's not all the characters, either (as you may have noticed :-)) but about half the regulars and a goodly sprinkling of the guests; like them as I do, were this Tarrant's 7 - or Gan's or Cally's - you would definitely *not* have to put up with my burblings. There's other things I love - the brilliant mixture of doom&gloom and sharp, ironic humour, the cleverness of the dialogue, the lunatic elements (like the Wardrobe and Treasure Rooms), *some* of the politics ... have to admit that a lot of the background slides straight over me (I've been trawling the archives recently, and it's amazing how little sense I make of the discussions on how Orac and tarrial cells actually work, or what a spatial actually is, or technical aspects of the Liberator <g> but then I'm a real-life Luddite, let alone an SF one). All I know is that these 'people' do strike a chord in me, far moreso than anything else in or about the show. The characters *are* the interesting stuff. Well, that and what they're wearing this ep ... Yes, I know this is no answer at all. Perhaps if anyone else wants to throw some ideas in ... not so much why this character or that (especially Snarly), but why characters at all? It was *meant*, after all, just to be action-adventure ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: 25%
by Sally Manton 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Joanne: <Sarcophagus gets my vote on this. Sally, remember Little Red Running Robes charging in slo-mo?> and Carol: <Ahrrr... "Little Red Running Robes..." I like. :) That's one of my favorite vid clips from the entire series.> Oh it's decorative, all right (though if you think I'm going to forgive him for looking slightly better in the headwrap than Snarly :-)) And this may be a CLUE as to why he's not up there on the rescue bit ... so busy running slowly and gracefully by the time he arrives it's always too late ... (OTOH Blake does the same thing in Redemption, batwing sleeves a-flap, and *he* gets there in time to stop the slave being killed. Life and B7 scripts just ain't fair). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Where is he going?
by J MacQueen 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Is the Teal Star going to Vandor, coming from Vandor, or doing something else entirely, at the beginning of Deathwatch? I'm having a little bit of trouble with the wording for a filk, and if there's an answer online I must've missed it. Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Blakes7 February 2001