Blakes7 February 2001

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80 participants
929 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: 25%
by Mac4781＠aol.com 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

Joanne wrote: > Sarcophagus gets my vote on this. Sally, remember Little Red Running Robes > charging in slo-mo? Ahrrr... "Little Red Running Robes..." I like. :) That's one of my favorite vid clips from the entire series. Carol Mc

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Re: [B7L] characters vs interesting stuff
by Sally Manton 07 Feb '01

07 Feb '01

After I wrote: <As a fan of B7, you ought to know that lack of (coherent) plot never stopped Our Heroes ...> Fiona asked: <For example?> For one example, try and make sense of the plot of Weapon for me - I love it, but make head or tail of cause and effect I *cannot*. And Dawn of the Gods appears to me to be mostly plot-hole tied up with a few spider-web-strands of almost endearing vagueness. I mean, a lot of the episodes have LARGE holes (but as long as they're not too large for me to simply jump over, who cares?) but DotG is nearly all hole ... I'm one of those who care lots about character and very little about plot - that doesn't mean I want stories with *no* plot (although a good PWP can be nice) but that it's not *as* important if the plot is flawed and a bit shakey as long as the characters work, whereas the most brilliant plot in the world won't work if the characters sound like Bill and Ben in Roj and Kerr-masks. Plot's not *that* important (which is why I don't hate Animals. Or Kairos. And giggle all the way through Assassin. And love The Web). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Torture
by M 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

On Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:23:42 EST, B7Morrigan(a)aol.com wrote: > N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: > I agree with Morrigan, from what I've read its better when some-one close to Avon such as Blake is hurt and therefore you get to see his reaction, he opens up more when he's vulnerable. The stories where he is the patient and opens up tends to be the stories of his mental illness, a patient, but in this case his mental state is the focus. M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Re: 25%
by J MacQueen 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

>From: Mistral <mistral(a)centurytel.net> >Sarcophagus and Ultraworld seem likely candidates. Sarcophagus gets my vote on this. Sally, remember Little Red Running Robes charging in slo-mo? Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Subtext vs Character, or would Mr Humphries have pushed the right buttons?
by Natasa Tucev 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: >> whole book by L. Trilling, 'Beyond Culture' > >To which I would counter R. Jenkins, "Social Identity." What is it about? >> One can also reach beyond culture by resorting to one's innermost core, >> instincts and feelings, or to the simple biological facts of life: your >body >> is not a product of your society, and it is also you. > >Yes, but for how long? What you're saying is that it's only possible to >resist culture by withdrawing totally from it. Which is a fair point, but I >think it also makes it clear that as human beings we are irrevocably linked >with our cultures. A quote from Trilling: 'We reflect that somewhere in the child, somewhere in the adult, there is a hard, irreducible, stubborn core of biological urgency, and biological necessity, and biological *reason*, that culture cannot reach and that reserves the right, which sooner or later it will excercise, to judge the culture and resist and revise it.' This doesn't sound like a withdrawal tactic to me. >> (A good example of this is Orwell's W.Smith, who cannot compare his >wretched >> living conditions with anything different in his experience, but feels in >> his bones and his stomach that everything around him is wrong.) > >But again, this decision and feeling is not outside his society. Smith has >not personally experienced anything different, but other parts of the book >suggest that he would have had at least casual contact with ideas about >other ways of being, through his parents or through old people like the >prole man in the pub. Indeed, to have contact with 'ideas about other ways of being' is another option cited by Trilling, which I've also mentioned. It enables an individual to view his/her culture from another standpoint - by comparing it with other traditions or other cultures. Winston's mother conveys a very important notion in the book. The governing ideology of Winston's world claims that one's greatest loyalties should lie with the state, Party and Big Brother. Winston's mother was able to resist this system, not because she was well educated in history or politics, but because she gave supremacy to her private loyalties - her family and children. This is a very primitive, un-intellectual notion, but it actually implies a way to remain human. In one of the first scenes in the novel, Winston watches a movie in which a mother tries to protect her son from a bomb by embracing him. Love cannot protect one from physical harm, but it makes all the difference. Winston is, however, incapable of resisting his culture by resorting to this same instinctive, emotional core of his being, because the inhuman society in which he lives has conditioned him too thoroughly: when, after a bombing, he sees a human hand in the street, he simply kicks it aside. Hey, Orwell is a part of the curriculum, so I'm *very* prepared - this List still doesn't match my students in asking tricky questions! (Er, I cannot find a B7 point here, unless someone wants to apply the hand symbolism to Travis...) N.

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Re: the patriarchy
by Marian de Haan 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

Helen wrote: >Of course, Cally and Jenna should have had better roles with more leadership.< This leads to the interesting question of how the men would have felt about being led by a woman :-) I can't see Blake wanting to serve under *anyone*, male or female. I don't think Avon would care who was boss, as long as he felt safe and was allowed to pursue his own interests. It wouldn't make any difference to Vila, I think, although he might moan a bit louder if forced into action by a woman (especially one without what he considers "good legs" :-) ). I've got a sneaking suspicion that Tarrant would resent it, and I can't make up my mind about Gan. And how would the women have felt about it? Would Jenna have wanted to serve under Cally, or Cally under Jenna? Dayna, still being very young, wouldn't have minded if Cally had taken the reins of Liberator. I'm not sure about her reaction if Soolin had taken charge. Fascinating topic. Marian

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Re: [B7L] characters vs interesting stuff
by Sally Manton 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: <Really?! Admittedly I don't write fiction, but I'm curious as to how you can do a character story without a plot. 'Splain zis to me...> As a fan of B7, you ought to know that lack of (coherent) plot never stopped Our Heroes ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: Subtext vs Character
by Sally Manton 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

After Dayna wrote: <Well, yes. But IMO, this one was very well adapted for Avon (presumably by Chris Boucher?), and "Animals" didn't work in large part precisely *because* it didn't fit with Dayna in Cally's role (sorry, Una!).> Agreed, Deliverance *was* well adapted - non eof Avon's lines come over as Blake-ish, and Vila's chorus bit (which would *never* have been the same had it been Blake) has clearly been expanded. You'd never know from the episode that there was such a big last-minute change. Animals ... umm, well, Dayna does have all those very Cally-ish lines, and that relationship with <shudder> Justin ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Torture
by B7Morrigan＠aol.com 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: > My take on h/c is completely different. I did an article on it in AltaZine > 3, where I proposed that the Patient (usually Avon) is the actual character, > but the Nurse (the comforter) was a surrogate for the writer/reader - a kind > of Mary-Sue in disguise. I agree that the comforter can be a surrogate for the writer/reader but I don't agree with your other points, Neil. <snip> > The dynamic here is one of levelling off - or reversing - a perceived imbalance > of power to facilitate access to the Patient. <snip> > Basically, A-C or A-V h/c fic is about the symbolic death of a cold, > arrogant, supercilious bastard and his symbolic rebirth as an understanding > nice guy. Interesting that you should think so. I don't see how that would come about unless Avon were the comfortee. Of the h-c I've read (and I claim no great experience in this area though I'll admit to both perpetrating and reading the genre) where Avon is the one hurt, he gets to lie about in terrible agony (looking marvelous) and does not appear to be changed at all by the experience. As I perceive it, the real focus in h-c is upon the relationship(s) between the other character(s) and the one who is hurt. Any marked change or growth occurs in the comforter's perspective of the one who is hurt. I see h-c as an opportunity for the author to place a particular character on a pedestal or in the spotlight. Because of the threat to this spotlighted character, the others are provided with an opportunity to reflect and reevaluate their relationship with or their opinion of him/her. <snip> > - h/c is a means of getting emotional > access to Avon, who is in a state that prohibits him from shrugging off or > actively blocking that access. And this is where I agree that comforter can be a surrogate for the writer. By forcing the comforter (and sometimes other background characters) to reflect upon the character who has been hurt, the author is able to use that emotional access to 1) forge or repair an emotional bond between the characters that might more accurately portray the emotional bond between the author and the hurt character and 2) elaborate all of the sterling qualities of the character who has been hurt In other words, h-c can be a bit of a soapbox for the author. Morrigan

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Paul Darrow & B7 movie
by Nicoline van den Berg 06 Feb '01

06 Feb '01

Hi! A friend just told me that Paul Darrow was interviewed on Dutch tv (Veronica) last week, apparently talking about the B7 movie. She doesn't know any details. Has anybody else seen it? Nicoline

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Blakes7 February 2001