Blakes7

blakes7@lists.lysator.liu.se

5511 discussions

We can't *all* be geniuses ... (was: moloch/limiters)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Jenny wrote: <I'll tell you one thing that scene does show - that Gan's more intelligent than he lets on. Which makes one wonder why he's hiding it ...> and that got me to thinking. Because it's based on an assumption that I don't agree with, that Gan acts (whether genuinely or not) stupidly. He doesn't, and he isn't. Not if you look at him as an individual, rather than compare him with the glittering group he's got himself mixed up with. Gan is actually far more Everyman than Vila, in my opinion - Vila being extremely sharp (if scatterbrained and lazy) and brilliant in his own speciality. Gan isn't *brilliant* at anything, and admits he's not the ideal pupil for a teacher like Orac (then again, who would be?) but when you actually read his lines in the scripts, he comes over as a plain-spoken man of average - possibly a little higher than average - intelligence. And he's got more common sense than all the rest put together (in fact, I'd argue that he and Soolin got nearly *all* of the common sense in this bunch). Sure, he says something stupid occasionally - name me *any* of Our Heroes or Villains who don't. Listen to him when he's arguin with Blake in Pressure Point or Shadow. He's not Blake's intellectual equal and knows it (and I think he respects both Blake's and Avon's intelligence, and defers to them when he thinks it right), but he puts his own points clearly and intelligently, unfazed by any notions of inferiority. He's not stupid. He doesn't act stupid. It's just the company he keeps. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

2 1

Re: McVeigh
by Alison Page 10 May '01

10 May '01

Dana said - >>They had photogenic small children on all or most of the planets controlled by Star One also. That is precisely my point, to acknowledge a complexity brought into sharp relief by Harriet's anecdote, rather than to pretend my own opinion is unambiguously and obviously correct. >I impose stricter moral standards when judging works of fiction I think you are pulling my leg. For example I am happy to smile at Vila's thievery, but breaking and entering in real life rarely gives me a chuckle. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

1 0

re: McVeigh
by Alison Page 10 May '01

10 May '01

Harriere said - >>I can understand if no one feels like having the Blake-at-Star-One thing just now, but it did make me pause to think about why McVeigh feels wrong and Blake mostly right. Real dead people instead of fictional ones? The photo of the small child being carried out of the building? The fact that, even at my most jaundiced, I don't quite put any part of American government on a par with the Federation? Or just that McVeigh is at the furthest part of the political spectrum from me?<< I too don't want any kind of foul-up on the list, but I've just got to say these are very important questions, and ones I would ask myself. I, too, would feel Blake was 'right' and McVeigh 'wrong'. Do I impose stricter moral standards in real life than I do when judging works of fiction? (god, I hope so). How would we feel if McVeigh had quoted B7 instead of Star Wars (unlikely of course, in practice, but morally conceivable). The argument he makes is of course one that everyone who has ever used force makes. I believe people like McVeigh want to kill and hurt, to use force to control other people, and that they therefore are only too willing to allow themselves to be whipped up into a frenzy of personifying a target (any target - the government will do) as pure evil, to give themselves internal justification for their violence. Just as the Yorkshire Ripper, Bible John, etc worked themselves up into a frenzy about how evil prostitutes were - as an excuse to attack women. The goal in each case is the violence, and the political or moral facade is merely that. I don't think Blake is portrayed as such a person, which means his actions 'feel' different to me, apart from the coolness that comes with contemplating fictional instead of real deaths. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

2 1

Avon needs blake... (warning: character junkie stuff)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian said: <What's confusing is what motivates him. The short answer can only be he needs Blake.> And Nathan: Well, yes, he has worked out by now that just because he was 'rid' of the man, he wasn't *at all* rid of the other baggage (the crew, the Federation, Her Supremeness etc ...) which IMO was what he really *wantted* to be free of ... What motivates him is IMO very simple - he cares about the man and 'needs' to know that he's alive and all right. I also think he misses Blake on a personal basis (and not only because only Vila is *anywhere near* as good at creative arguing). I'm afraid <g> you'll never get me to agree to <he makes a conscious an overtly determined effort to reacquire the very person he was the least fond of> ... since (as most of the Lyst is well aware) I'd put Blake at the top of Avon's very very brief 'people who matter' list. (And yes, since he *is* stuck with fighting for his ship, Blake would come in decidedly handy for said fight.) And Marian again: <Apart from the last episode, I don't see any evidence in the series for Avon needing Blake. And in "Blake" he gives a rational reason - they need him as figurehead.IMO in Terminal Avon doesn't go looking for Blake because he needs him but out of a sense of duty.> Well yes, that's his rationalisations, neither of which stands up to scrutiny. A figurehead he could exploit? Come on, Avon couldn't manage Blake beforehand, I can't see him even in his wildest flights of fancy thinking he could do it with the man Orac's been telling him about. And remember, Orac's been looking for Blake for some time - before the figurehead idea was even formulated. *I* don't think Orac decided to do it all on his own ... And Terminal? A mere sense of duty towards Blake doesn't explain [a] 30 hours on the flight deck without sleep and yelling at the rest, [b] keeping it *from* the rest, [c] forcing them to risk the ship by going through the cloud of ick, [d] almost killing Tarrant when he tries to stop them, [e] going down alone although he's 99% sure it's a trap, [f] the depth of emotion in the scene with the faux-Blake, [f] refusing to give up the Liberator, first with a gun at his own head, then with one at Tarrant's, and [g] the emotion in that last 'you promised me Blake' and the whole 'Blake's dead' dialogue - he's too shocked to hide it as he normally does. Or if it does, I wouldn't mind someone feeling that dutiful next time *I'm* in trouble. My own view ... he did search for Blake for quite a lot of s3-4 - not continuously, certainly not obsessively, but seriously. He stopped soon after Volcano, believing that he believed Blake dead or permanently lost, and didn't start up again until after Rumours; stopped again after Terminal and then sometime mid-S4 began to believe that Servalan had lied and directed Orac to search again. He didn't mention it to the others (thus making sure we didn't hear about it :-)) since [a] in S3 it would have been rather embarrassing - even for Avon - to admit he misses and is worried about the "HIM" he so loudly said he wanted to be free of and[b] in S4 it would have been even worse given what actually happened at Terminal. The evidence is indirect and mostly based on outside evidence (Servalan's change of attitude towards Blake-as-bait in S3, Avon's reactions any time Blake gets mentioned :-), and his partial thawing mid-S4, round about when Orac *would* have begun the long chase for that 'one point' ...) but it's there and makes sense to me (and makes sense of Terminal, too). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

2 1

Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: <In Assassin, you get something different; there's a deal made, but once Avon has what he wants, there is no reason for Avon to honour the deal with Nebrox, so why does Avon then save him?> <grin> He nearly didn't, you will notice - Neebrox had to *remind* him about his promise. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

2 1

Re: Gan defense
by Helen Krummenacker 10 May '01

10 May '01

> To my > >sentimental ears, "my woman" conveys "a woman who was mine - as in, > she > >was everything to me, but I don't need to explain that to you, it's > too > >private, and you see my meaning". > > Jenny objected: > > But think about it. "My woman." Not "Sarah," or "Becky," or "Jill"; > not > "someone I cared for" or "a woman who meant a lot to me." Very > cavemannish > really; it doesn't give her a name or a face or even suggest that > there was > anything at all between them. > It's normal. I say "my husband" instead of "Allan", if I don't expect people to know who he is from the name, in relationship to me. If I wasn't married to him, I'm not sure what I would call him: "my guy" would be less juvenile than boyfriend, less explicit than lover and less of a mouthful than anything else. > And, leaving the internal logic of the story aside and seeing it from > a > technical standpoint: why would the scriptwriter make her Gan's > "woman" and > not Gan's "wife" (which would have been a more effective pathos > conveyor and > leave the audience less puzzled)? > > What is he trying to convey by > having Gan > say "my woman"? > Laws that did not allow certain people to marry? We know of married lawyers and scientists, but was marriage recognised in the working classes? Or that someone had forgotten whether it had been established that the marriage contract existed in the future and used the same terms?

2 1

Dayna's family
by Ellynne G. 10 May '01

10 May '01

"Jenny Kaye" <jennycat55(a)hotmail.com> wrote: >As the local populace wanted to kill Hal, Dayna and Lauren, I think it's >unlikely that they would have got any help from that quarter. Sorry, guess I wasn't as clear as I could have been. I'm thinking anyone going to the aliens on the corner (or the seashore, as the case may be) would have to be pretty desperate with no place else to go. Hence, someone whose tribe or whose main supporters within the tribe had largely been wiped out. Desperation leads to desperate choices and there have been more than a few cases of people in wartime fleeing to a traditional enemy even when they weren't sure of their welcome. Especially >when it is the Sarrans that Dayna is practicing her skills by killing. Well, since Dayna was no more than a year old when they moved there, I don't think the killing started till later. The >script states that Lauren was a child when she joined the Melanbys, there is >no evidence that Lauren was also accompanied by anyone else. It may be that Hal Melanby is trusting and confides all to people he barely knows. Then again, maybe the man who was blinded and tortured holds a few things back - or doesn't want to overwhelm the new guest with all the nitty-gritty. If Avon's the first new face he's seen (uh, so to speak) in 20 years, it may be Hal has forgotten much of the fine art of conversation. >Both Dayna and her father mention that she has learned, and is learning, to >master all weapons ancient and modern. There's no reference in the script at >all to her learning how from the Sarrans or anyone else. As I tried to say, this was just a thought. But weapons such as bows, spears, swords, etc. take a high degree of training and skill to become fully expert in their use, rather like various sports or ballet. I remeber reading about a famous ballerina who, to the end of her life, made sure there was someone in her troupe who would watch her perform and critique her honestly because it was the only way to make sure she was in top form. I've also seen sports nuts literally spend hours repeating the same action over and over again to get it right and keep it right. Also, I've never heard of anyone becoming a major expert in one of these fields without someone who could tell them what they're doing wrong and how to do better. Also, no use reinventing the wheel. One of the Romans' advantages in war was training their soldiers to stab rather than swing (which leaves the swordsman open). Swords had been around for centuries. Many of those they conquered had been aware of them for at least decades. There was still plenty of sword swinging. So, Dayna has a high level of expertise with weapons that, my understanding is, she would not have mastered without a trainer - renting the video wouldn't cut it. Hal couldn't be that trainer. It's unlikely he would know one offworld or could try and find one on another planet. Sarran is covered with people with at least a fair degree of weapons knowledge. Ergo, a Sarran trainer seems the most likely to me. Since the problems in Lauren's adoption had already been pointed out, the idea that this person brought Lauren along seemed likely. Occam's razor and all that. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

1 0

Re: Gan's woman
by Alison Page 10 May '01

10 May '01

'my woman' vs said woman's name: Jarriet reminisced >>I concluded that when we were merely acquaintances he preferred to preserve a field of privacy around her, which he relaxed once we became friends I don't think it is so much a question of privacy as necessary information. If you use the name, about someone they've never met, they are non the wiser. Once people have made the name/role connection you can use the name instead. I think 'partner' has become a more common term since 1979. Back then bohemian types who naughtily lived together without marrying used to say 'my lady' (shudder) or 'my old lady' (paradoxically much less shuddersome). I don't think either of those would be terms used by Gan, so 'my woman' will have to do. Suppose he'd said 'the trooper had killed Bobby' - who would have known what he meant? It could have been his budgie :-) Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

1 0

Re: [B7L] Re: FC: SFX card game
by Marian de Haan 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >Steve wrote: ><However, contained in my set was the card for Kerr Avon. Here are his ratings (all out of 10): <snip> > ><Snogability: 6> > ><blink> call me biased, but I'm sure there's a miscount somewhere there ..?< Depends on who's doing the the ratings. Judging by the fact that Buffy gets snogability 9, I suspect it to be a man, in which case 6 isn't bad at all :-) ><Fashion sense: 5> > >Let me guess. They've seen DeathWatch and Pressure Point.< In that case he's doing rather well because for *those* costumes I would have given him 1. Marian

1 0

Re: FC: SFX card game
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Steve wrote: <However, contained in my set was the card for Kerr Avon. Here are his ratings (all out of 10): <snip> <Snogability: 6> <blink> call me biased, but I'm sure there's a miscount somewhere there ..? <Fashion sense: 5> Let me guess. They've seen DeathWatch and Pressure Point. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

1 0

Jump to page:

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

2002

2001

Blakes7