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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: Gan's woman
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Harriere wrote: <When Gan discusses the issue with Jenna, they're acquaintances; maybe he might have opened up more later, but at this point he wishes to give her only the basic information required.> They're a reticent crowd, after all. We never hear the names of Blake's murdered siblings, or Avon's brother; neither those relatives nor Jenna's mother are ever mentioned again, nor are *any* family/friends of chatterer Vila. Cally never mentions her clone sister till they're off to Auron; Tarrant never mentions his brother till faced with his image in DeathWatch, and the rest of the Tarrant clan is a closed book (which is lovely for fanfiction, because we can shoehorn Dev in there somehow). None of the Scorpio crew (except possibly Avon) knew Soolin's history on Gauda Prime, for all that she'd been with them a year and was friendly with Dayna. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] The End (Was: Re: scripts and other ephemera)
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

"Sally Manton" on why Avon stands over Blake's body wrote: > >*Why* triumphant? Not just that I don't see it in his stance, but what has >he got to triumph about in shooting Blake? He's free of him at last. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Gan's woman [was [B7L] Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #393 - 14 msgs]
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Harriet wrote: >Jenny wrote: >>And the fact that he doesn't give her name, or even say "my wife" >>or "my lover", but "my woman". Creepy. > >Not necessarily - I quite like those languages where "my man" and "my >husband" are expressed by the same words. But in this case, I assume >that they weren't married, and then you get into the tired old >what-do-you-call-them thing. <snip> To my >sentimental ears, "my woman" conveys "a woman who was mine - as in, she >was everything to me, but I don't need to explain that to you, it's too >private, and you see my meaning". In my personal meandering off-canon, >the woman was pregnant when she died. But think about it. "My woman." Not "Sarah," or "Becky," or "Jill"; not "someone I cared for" or "a woman who meant a lot to me." Very cavemannish really; it doesn't give her a name or a face or even suggest that there was anything at all between them. And, leaving the internal logic of the story aside and seeing it from a technical standpoint: why would the scriptwriter make her Gan's "woman" and not Gan's "wife" (which would have been a more effective pathos conveyor and leave the audience less puzzled)? What is he trying to convey by having Gan say "my woman"? Even David Jackson, IIRC, thought it was a bit tough and insensitive-sounding. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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No changes, please ...
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

I always like a bit of taffy after a critique, so ... We've done what changes we'd like. Now, would anyone like to give us: [a] three things about Blake's 7 as a series that make it special for them, and different from other shows? [b] if you can think of them, one thing in each of just three episodes that somehow lifted that episode for you? (For instance, I *know* Kairos is somewhat dodgy, but I love the portrayal of Avon as single-minded scientist intent of shuffling the leadership onto Tarrant; it works so well just for this brief post-War period for me.) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] We can't *all* be geniuses ... (long)
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Jenny wrote: <Oh, he does act stupid. There's a lot of Gan's actions which are put down by a lot of people (including the crew) to his being stupid-- not checking to see if Jenna was behind him on Cephlon, or tearing out the computer banks in "Breakdown."> The second instance is an invalid example, IMO, since it could have been caused by scrambled brain impulses caused by the malfunction. So you have one example of stupid behaviour (and I could add a second one, the temper-tantrum-moment with the handcuffs in Bouty when Vila is trying *not* to blow Blake's head off). But of course <veg> the odd dumb moment is so *unusual* in our crew. Personally, I consider Blake, Avon, Jenna, Tarrant and Soolin - at the *least* - to be very bright in their different ways. So ... Want to ask Avon how he thought sending that message to Servalan (in Hostage) would help? And why his brain turned off once he went down to Exbar? Why he turned his back on Sara in MoD? Why in Rescue, when he clearly didn't trust Dorian, he left his gun in the other room while he took a bath? Want to ask Tarrant why - after stating very firmly and loudly that he trusted no one but himself - he swallowed that whole incredibly silly story from Norl in City? Or why he insisted in DotG that *everyone* goes down with the ship? Want to ask Cally why - when she *knew* Gan had tried to throttle Blake - she *let him go*? Want to ask Dayna why at the end of Kairos she meekly teleported Servalan to safety instead of into open space? (oh, and want to ask Servalan why she decided to trust Dayna with her safety?) Or why - when Avon *told* her in Powerplay to 'shoot anyone who isn't me', she still managed to get captured by Klegg's men without even wounding one of them? Want to ask Blake why he had so much trouble keeping up with the Twinfoil's explanation in 'The Web'? Why he repeatedly let Travis and/or Servalan live? Why in MoD he left the unsealed box with an incredibly valuable neutrotope lying around where at the first bump it would fall? Want to ask Soolin why she decided to help Tarrant in Warlord, risking the whole alliance they'd worked for, the security of the base and all of their lives so he could have his little romantic fling? Want to ask Vila about that dropped knife in Cygnus Alpha? Or playing the with loading bay controls on Albion? Or believing Blake's mind-rape-induced lies in 'Voice'? For that matter (and that episode), want both Avon and Jenna why - when they *knew* Blake's mind was decidedly awry - when he said 'give the mummy a bracelet', they gave the mummy a bracelet? (Jenna doesn't have *many* 'where-in-the-world-have-I-put-my-brain' moments, but she does seem to persistently be several steps behind Avon and Blake (the dreaded 'what's going on, Blake?' bits) so that they have to explain things to her - Redemption is especially bad on this point). Want to ask the whole lot of them why they didn't notice Cally was missing in SLD???? Or that Jenna *saw* their discarded handcuffs in Bounty and said nothing??? And that's just the ones I can come up with now. After all, they're all under incredible stress - under sentence of death, caught up in a probably unwinnable war, and constantly fighting (sometimes even the enemy <g>). It would be very surprising if any of them *didn't* act stupid on occasion. Gan may be more phlegmatic than Avon or Blake or Tarrant, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't feel stress as well. After all, speaking as someone whose claims to brilliance are ... errr, yes, well ... I wouldn't like to claim for for one minute that I'd even do half as well as he does, let alone better. Not under the circumstances. Sally PS - anyone else got any 'maybe-I-should-have-stayed-in-bed' moments they particularly treasure? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Sally Manton 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian *did write: <No, Jenny wrote that :-)> Oops. Sorry. I'm really better at cutting and pasting when scissors are involved ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Avon needs blake...
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: > ><grin> He nearly didn't, you will notice - Neebrox had to *remind* him >about his promise.< > >Yes, which might indicate he may be less a man of his word than he claims. >Still, I think he'd want to keep his part of a deal made with Blake. But in Terminal and Blake, his actions don't have to do with a deal-- the last deal that he made with Blake was concluded by that point, as Avon got the Liberator; once a deal's done, Avon isn't generally interested in anything further (even in holding up his own side of the bargain, unless he has to), there's no hold over him. Avon does seem to have believed in Blake, which suggests that a small part of Avon was an idealist. But then, to be a cynic you have to be an idealist. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: bleakness and Servalan (was Terminal)
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Marian wrote: Although >well aware about the repercussions her actions will have on Marriott's wife >and children, she's quite unconcerned about them. And of all the surgeons she could have chosen, she picks the one whose death would have an impact on Travis-- she's twisting the knife. >I'm not sure whether Kasabi really meant that, or if she just said the most >hurtful thing she could think of. I think she did mean it. Servalan does not deny that the report was bad, and if she had to use her connections to get where she was, this suggests that she did have to overcome a bad report. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] We can't *all* be geniuses ... (was: moloch/limiters)
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >He's not stupid. He doesn't act stupid. It's just the company he keeps. Oh, he does act stupid. There's a lot of Gan's actions which are put down by a lot of people (including the crew) to his being stupid-- not checking to see if Jenna was behind him on Cephlon, or tearing out the computer banks in "Breakdown." But if he's doing these things, and he's not stupid, why is he doing them? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: moloch/limiters
by Jenny Kaye 10 May '01

10 May '01

Sally wrote: >Jenny wrote: >First of all, there's a good deal to suggest that Doran was convicted (at >least partly) of murder. He talks about dreaming of "committing every crime >in the book";> > >Well, that only proves that he at the very least does exaggerate, wouldn't >you say? Unless he's Methuselah, he *can't* have <g> It's a cheap cliché. It didn't say he *had.* It said he dreamt of it when in his prison cell. Which rather suggests that he's criminally minded, and wants to commit crimes. Including violent ones, it seems. ><he says "When Doran gets aggravated, he kills people"; he shoots two >unarmed guards with nothing more than a quip about the gun going off in his >hand. The man's a killer.> > >So is Avon (the visa seller he mentions in Countdown). Just because someone >has killed doesn't *at all* mean they were convicted of murder. We don't know the circumstances under which Avon kills the visa seller, and Avon at least had a motive. Doran shoots two unarmed people and jokes about it-- again, more the action of a habitual killer than someone killing because they have to. ><But we never *do* find out exactly what Gan was convicted of, we only have >Gan's word for it.> > >We only have one person's word for a lot of things throughout the series >(again, there's Avon's story to Del Grant). Yes, and quite a number of them do turn out to be lies or versions. Even Avon's story to Del Grant (and vice versa) contained a number of things which turned out not to be true (even though this wasn't conscious on either man's aprt). >Personally, I believe Gan, since >I don't think the evidence contradicts his story. I think that's debatable. A man kills one guard and has an implant in his head (which doesn't even seem to stop him killing, or getting into states in which he might kill)? Surely a lot easier to give him five to ten? And why give him a limiter and send him to a prison planet, where he's not likely to be a danger to Federation guards? Were they worried he was going to be a danger to other prisoners perhaps? Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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