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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] The End (Was: Re: scripts and other ephemera)
by Illandri2＠aol.com 09 May '01

09 May '01

<< "Sally Manton" on why Avon stands over Blake's body wrote: > >*Why* triumphant? Not just that I don't see it in his stance, but what has >he got to triumph about in shooting Blake? He's free of him at last. Jenny >> Free of Blake only to realize that he's going to die. I've always thought that he was being ironic. Avon has a *great* sense of the ironic. Zenia, quietly coming out of shadows

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Re: [B7L] Re: moloch/limiters
by Jenny Kaye 09 May '01

09 May '01

Sally wrote: ><As for the dangerousness of Gan vs. Doran, I definitely did not make it >clear that I meant that I thought the Federation was jumping to >erroneous conclusions when they thought Gan was more dangerous than >Doran to them.> > >I still think the matter is simple. The limiter is not to prevent people >fighting others, whether legally (as in a trooper) or unfairly (as in >Doran's nasty ways with women). Gan bends and mangles plenty of enemies >with >no problem. It's to stop them *killing*. > >The limiter was used on people who killed. There's nothing in Moloch to >suggest that Doran was convicted of murder. Gan was. First of all, there's a good deal to suggest that Doran was convicted (at least partly) of murder. He talks about dreaming of "committing every crime in the book"; he says "When Doran gets aggravated, he kills people"; he shoots two unarmed guards with nothing more than a quip about the gun going off in his hand. The man's a killer. But we never *do* find out exactly what Gan was convicted of, we only have Gan's word for it. Anyway, there's strong evidence that Gan does kill someone in Cygnus Alpha. Shortly after Kara is killed, we see him leaning heavily on a spear, driving it into something on the ground. Either he's doing a spot of gardening, or he's stabbing someone. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: moloch/limiters
by Jenny Kaye 09 May '01

09 May '01

Helen wrote: > > There was a scene in an early episode where Avon shows him a thing or > > two > > about computers, but there are also quite a number of times where Avon > > clearly demonstrates his contempt for Gan's intelligence. For example: > > When > > they are looking for Orac in Shadow,Gan tells the crew that he even > > called > > out Orac's name. Avon replies, "That requires a degree of stupidity > > that no > > amount of training could match." > > > > >What part of "Snarky comments aside" was unclear? I *am* aware of the >oft quoted insults-- but then, Avon has insulted the intelligence of all >of them at various times. Perhaps you beliueve that Avon's words always >reveal true, deeply held convictions-- I prefer to scrutinize his >actions. Yes, so do I. But you appear to be assuming that just because he says something he means the opposite. He is "snarky" to Cally, Vila, Tarrant, Blake... and yet, however grudgingly, allows them their expertise. I can't think of a single occasion where he shows any respect for Gan's intelligence. The only time he comes close is when he explains the Liberator's functioning to Gan in "The Web" and even that's pretty contemptuous (and I'll tell you one thing that scene does show-- that Gan's more intelligent than he lets on. Which makes one wonder why he's hiding it). Even after Gan dies--and everyone else is upset about it--he's sarcastic about him and uses his death to score political points off Blake. >As for the dangerousness of Gan vs. Doran, I definitely did not make it >clear that I meant that I thought the Federation was jumping to >erroneous conclusions when they thought Gan was more dangerous than >Doran to them. Why would the Federation jump to erroneous conclusions? They're fascists, not idiots. >Also, almost everything mentioned (encouraging Vila to >assualt Servalan, shooting guards) happens after the initial arrest. >They apparently didn't realize what a beast he was.

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Re: [B7L] No changes, please ...
by Marian de Haan 09 May '01

09 May '01

Sally asked: >We've done what changes we'd like. Now, would anyone like to give us: > >[a] three things about Blake's 7 as a series that make it special for them, and different from other shows?< 1. The heroes *not* getting on with each other. 2. Women who don't scream. 3. Outstanding dialogue. >[b] if you can think of them, one thing in each of just three episodes that somehow lifted that episode for you?< 1. Project Avalon: Vila's dawdling when getting ready for teleport and Cally and Avon's reaction to that. 2. Ultraworld: the rare occasion in B7 of a joke at the end that works (and Avon's gorgeous smile :-) ). 3. Moloch: Avon expressing concern for Vila and regret about having allowed Tarrant to bully him along. (It's fun to see Avon being more compassionate than Cally just for once.) Marian

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Re: [B7L] Re: Blakes7 digest, Vol 1 #393 - 14 msgs
by Jenny Kaye 09 May '01

09 May '01

Helen wrote: > > Jacqui wrote: > > > > > > >How come Vila's 'friend' in 'Moloch' didn't have a limiter when he > > was far > > >more dangerous than Gan? > > > > Because Gan was far more dangerous than Vila's friend in 'Moloch'. > > That's > > the simple answer :-). > > > > Jenny > > > > >Ack! I shall defend my Oak Leaves (actually, was never awarded any >despite thinking Gan's a slendid chap and arguing that Avon teaching him >about computers shows that snarky comments aside, the Snarly One thought >Gan showed potential as a student) There was a scene in an early episode where Avon shows him a thing or two about computers, but there are also quite a number of times where Avon clearly demonstrates his contempt for Gan's intelligence. For example: When they are looking for Orac in Shadow,Gan tells the crew that he even called out Orac's name. Avon replies, "That requires a degree of stupidity that no amount of training could match." by amending that: >Gan was far more dangerous TO THE FEDERATION. What do they care if the >guy in Moloch rapes and harms the few women that are to be found on a >prison planet? First off, the women Doran meets are on the planet Sardos not a prison planet. Secondly Gan was sent to a prison planet. Thirdly, when left in the control room to guard two unarmed Federation soldiers, Doran shoots them both. Saying later that his finger slipped! Doran is an extremely violent individual. They are only there because they are criminals. He has a >mad on at half the species, but he's also basically a coward and won't >be attacking women with rank and status. I haven't got this episode on video and I haven't see it in years, so please excuse me if I'm getting this wrong, but I don't remember Doran being intimidated by women with rank and status, he even tries to encourage Vila to rape Servalan. Gan, on the other hand, >specifically killed a Federation trooper with his bare hands. He tells us he did, there is no confirmation of this. And it is never stated that he used his bare hands, just that he killed a guard that killed his woman. And the fact that he doesn't give her name, or even say "my wife" or "my lover", but "my woman". Creepy. It like Jenna going missing and someone aboard the Liberator saying, "where's that woman gone?" >They assume his anger will apply to anyone in the same uniform, or > >worse,with the same allegience. He is therefore a danger to the > >Federation and must be quelled. IMO that doesn't hold much water, because the reason Gan gives is that it was a vengence killing, not a political one. Also if Gan's such a "splended chap" why would the athorities consider him a threat to "anyone in the same uniform" that sounds more like a psycopath than a rational being. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Terminal
by Alison Page 09 May '01

09 May '01

Guy said - >>I'm a newcomer here, so I should really borrow some of Slave's humility for my first few postings No way - get stuck in like everyone else does. Hello by the way. >>Do we really believe Servalan thinks about this stuff much ? 'Think about' and 'believe that' are ambiguous terms. A person might 'think that' something is the case without framing it in their mind in so many words. So it might be that Servalan doesn't spend much time thinking about political or historical processes, but she just instinctively feels that everything must end badly, that compassion and love will lose to greed and terror: as she says 'it's an old wall, and it waits for everyone'. I think adding this radical pessimism to her character makes her more rounded (no pun intended) than the average SF villain of the time. Her ruthlessness isn't just an inexplicable plot device, but reflects a complete, bleak, world view. As it happens I'd go a bit further than that, as I think Servalan probably does think in explicit terms about these things. I think she is a bit of an intellectual, though a pragmatic one rather than a lover of ideas for their own sake. But I'd be interested to hear other people's opinions. Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] Dayna's family
by Jenny Kaye 09 May '01

09 May '01

Marian wrote: >Ellynne wrote: > >This would also give Dayna somewhat better reasons for her homicidal >treatment of the neighbors and for her father's tolerance of it. If she >was >avenging foster-mother, fighting people who had murdered her >foster-sister's >family the same way her biological mother and family had been murdered, her >actions make much more sense. So does what happened to Laran. If she was >some kind of lost heir, she was a threat as long as she lived. Also, it >kind of gives a new meaning to her rejoining her people.< > >Makes sense. It always seemed strange to me that they would kill her >rather >than force her into marriage. 1/ Why assume that they *would* force her into marriage? We know next to nothing about Sarran women. 2/ A more likely explanation is that they would kill her because she had been "contaminated" by outsiders and they feared that contamination. The prophecy, remember. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Re: moloch/limiters
by Sally Manton 09 May '01

09 May '01

Helen wrote: <Ack! I shall defend my Oak Leaves (actually, was never awarded any despite thinking Gan's a slendid chap ...> <smile of modest pride> *I've* got one - can't actually recall now why I got it though ... <As for the dangerousness of Gan vs. Doran, I definitely did not make it clear that I meant that I thought the Federation was jumping to erroneous conclusions when they thought Gan was more dangerous than Doran to them.> I still think the matter is simple. The limiter is not to prevent people fighting others, whether legally (as in a trooper) or unfairly (as in Doran's nasty ways with women). Gan bends and mangles plenty of enemies with no problem. It's to stop them *killing*. The limiter was used on people who killed. There's nothing in Moloch to suggest that Doran was convicted of murder. Gan was. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Dayna's family
by Jenny Kaye 09 May '01

09 May '01

Ellynne G. wrote: > >Checking over the archive, I came across the subject of Laran's adoption >into Dayna's family and whether she was a baby or child or whatever. I >noticed an interesting fact. Dayna is skilled enough with her chosen >weapons to deal successfully with multiples of the locals - armed, >mounted locals. Furthermore, the weapons she uses require a high degree >of training and skill - training I very much doubt her father had and >that his partial blindness probably would have kept him from passing on >even if he did. > >So, this suggests Dayna had contact with an adult who _was_ trained and >skilled in those weapons - and she was much more likely to find one of >those in the neighborhood than among whatever friends did or didn't come >to visit. Odds are, this adult was either one of Laran's parents or a >guardian of some sort. As the local populace wanted to kill Hal, Dayna and Lauren, I think it's unlikely that they would have got any help from that quarter. Especially when it is the Sarrans that Dayna is practicing her skills by killing. The script states that Lauren was a child when she joined the Melanbys, there is no evidence that Lauren was also accompanied by anyone else. Both Dayna and her father mention that she has learned, and is learning, to master all weapons ancient and modern. There's no reference in the script at all to her learning how from the Sarrans or anyone else. >Whew, Dayna now has an excellent reason to survive GP, too many >unresolved plot issues. There are no unresolved plot issues, it's all there in the text. Jenny _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Exeter City (mercifully brief)
by Stephen Date 09 May '01

09 May '01

The Exeter City website's (www.weareexeter.com) latest headline is Blake's 7! The seven in question are players whose contracts have come to an end and been summarily dismissed. I find this oddly appropriate. Stephen. ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie

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