Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Double Standards
by Caveatemptor1＠aol.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

<<Carol McCoy wrote: << I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to say something. I'm especially sorry because I very much enjoy Penny and she's not posted a single thing to the lyst since then. Maybe because she was hurt by the words. Not everyone complains in public when they've been hurt. Or maybe because she was hurt that no spoke up in her defense. I hope she's still here to read this. >> I very much hope this is not the reason we haven't heard from Penny lately. It would be a shame if hurt feelings were the cause of anyone leaving the list. Courtney

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Re: Double Standards
by seven＠gaudaprime.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

Carol wrote I've been debating mentioning this for days. And as my conscience has been prickling all the while, I think I'm meant to say something. David You were quite right to wait, not so much because the Redemption gathering is taking place but for another reason. Carol Some of you may have read my post several days ago where I said we on the lyst are guilty of having double standards. I believe that very much to be true, and I believe I'm as guilty of it as anyone. It's natural to be more disturbed when a "stranger" is attacking a "friend." And it's natural to be more disturbed when you disagree with the point the attacker is making. I think both those reasons (and probably others as well) are why some tactless posts slip through and some are jumped on. David On double standards I have little to say. It is natural to be disturbed and concerned. What isn't natural is waiting for the inner disturbance to pass. The internet is unforgiving in that what is emailed can not be unmailed. So it is always a good idea to wait before hitting that 'send' button. Carol (snipped outcry over words remembered even today) A post was recently sent to the list that to my mind was far more disheartening than ... , but not a single list member has spoken up. So here I am, championing yet another apparent underdog. (snipped excerpt from 43706 and two feelings) There are far more tactful ways of making a point. David I for one went through similar unpleasant feelings but was not moved to speak up. The bulk of February's posts has been in the grip of this strange thing. Carol I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to say something. I'm especially sorry because I very much enjoy Penny and she's not posted a single thing to the lyst since then. Maybe because she was hurt by the words. Not everyone complains in public when they've been hurt. Or maybe because she was hurt that no spoke up in her defense. I hope she's still here to read this. David Someone might be able to coax Penny back. I enjoy Penny's posts and web offerings too (but don't tell the Dread One that) and after she has come back to the Lyst, maybe she will make a statement about the self-exile. DC

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Re: [B7L] Re:Deliverance/H/C
by Ellynne G. 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

Been giving this some serious thought. I must admit, I think I like h/c. Whether this is because of some kind of American thing, some kind of feminine lit thing, or a Mary Sue thing, I can't say. It's just that I like various aspects of stories where one character is finally convinced to let down at least some of the infamous, emotional guard. As such, I see the stories as being about the characters either admitting feelings (sorry about the f word), especially trust and concern, they may have for another character or characters. That is, a hurt character may be forced by circumstances to trust and rely on another character in a way that normally wouldn't happen - and that this trust is seen as justified and remains (to some extent) a new part of the relationship, an emotional safe zone that didn't exist before. To me, a story where one of the characters uses this 'safe zone' to hurt the other, even in a limited way, would undercut what had made it a safe zone, returning the relationship to the usual, 'This is my side of the line, this is your side of the line. Don't mix them up,' dynamics we have all come to know and love. Except with a bigger no man's land between the lines. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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B7 opinions
by Ellynne G. 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

Correct views of B7: I think I speak for all of us when I say that each of us knows, deep down, our own view of B7 is the correct one and pity the poor souls who have not yet reached this state of elightenment. Personal insults: It seems moderately ironic that I recently commented that I found the B7 list a lot easier to chat on because people were rather good humored with their opinions. It is possible to believe Blake is evil, say so, and not feel one is in danger of being linched. It is even possible to believe Avon is . . . well, even some of those most afflicted with Avon lust might not argue the evil point in certain contexts. Let's say that it is possible to state you think Avon leaves a lot to be desired and, while there might be internet version of shocked horror, this would also not lead to a public and gory demise. Personally, I still see the list this way. I notice that, despite the frequent calls for attack penguins, a large number of differing views seem to coexist here. JMHO Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Order of Precedence
by Caveatemptor1＠aol.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

<<Carol McCoy wrote: << I'm not just a parenting-related "Godmother," Fiona, I'm the Godmother of the dreaded Tarrant Nostra. We make fen offers they can't refuse. ;) >> I can testify to that. Happy Tarrant loather that I was...the "gentle persuasion" <g> of the Tarrant Nostra encouraged me to "give him a chance"; and I discovered that I really like him. Who'd a thunk it? Courtney

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Other Lists
by Caveatemptor1＠aol.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

<< Annie wrote: << There are quite a few for Highlander and its associated actors/characters. We have one of those for Alias Smith & Jones, too. Is there one of those anywhere for Blakes 7, come to think of it? >> There is the Avon List. Courtney

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Double Standards
by Mac4781＠aol.com 25 Feb '01

25 Feb '01

I've been debating mentioning this for days. And as my conscience has been prickling all the while, I think I'm meant to say something. Some of you may have read my post several days ago where I said we on the lyst are guilty of having double standards. I believe that very much to be true, and I believe I'm as guilty of it as anyone. It's natural to be more disturbed when a "stranger" is attacking a "friend." And it's natural to be more disturbed when you disagree with the point the attacker is making. I think both those reasons (and probably others as well) are why some tactless posts slip through and some are jumped on. Wendy's comments were directed at words, and an outcry of distress rose from some members of the lyst in response. Such an outcry that even today it was mentioned again by a member who mentioned she was "disheartened" by Wendy's wording. A post was recently sent to the list that to my mind was far more disheartening than Wendy's, but not a single list member has spoken up. So here I am, championing yet another apparent underdog. Neil wrote: > I have never called you a dickhead, I have never thought of you as a > dickhead, and until now I've never even *wanted* to consider you a dickhead, > but if you persist in making such an obvious fool of yourself in this > infantile fashion you will leave me with no other choice. I feel the use of "infantile" is inflammatory and insulting. > You have in the past proved to me, through your postings, your websites, and > what fiction of yours I have read, that you are a person of intelligence, > not to mention wit. All the more pity, then, that you seem to have > degenerated into the kind of boorish lout that cannot tolerate anyone > enjoying a conversation that he or she feels excluded from. I don't think the first sentence is a justifiable excuse to call someone a "boorish lout." I'm very disturbed by the tone of this post. There are far more tactful ways of making a point. I'm sorry that it's taken me so long to say something. I'm especially sorry because I very much enjoy Penny and she's not posted a single thing to the lyst since then. Maybe because she was hurt by the words. Not everyone complains in public when they've been hurt. Or maybe because she was hurt that no spoke up in her defense. I hope she's still here to read this. Carol Mc

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Re: [B7L] One Two Princes Kneel Before You (still is: Thread hijacking)
by Mac4781＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Fiona wrote: > A lot of good and well-taken points, although I think > the subject-heading-changing could also be taken as an > opportunity for amusing and entertaining creativity > (see above) <G> Alas, I am not that creative. In evidence I submit my totally inappropriate, totally blah subject header "Question," which I created because Sally had asked us to please delete her name from headers. > Not me, or, as I said before, if I've said something > that could be taken this way, <Slave> I most humbly > and abjectly apologise, madam </Slave> Since I'm the one who said misunderstandings are best avoided by quoting, I've pulled up one of your quotes on the subject: > We were talking about carrying on with our "serious" > discussions, which are not to everyone's taste, > hijack-free, and I don't particularly see any reason > why we shouldn't have "serious" discussions openly on > the list, even if not everyone responds or even read It's the "hijack-free" that seems to be the crux of the problem. It seems to suggest a degree of censorship. So if someone reading a "serious" discussion thought of a wisecrack response, he/she should muffle it or change the heading, putting an extra burden on that person. > Because of what I've been saying. You *can't* have > serious without silly, or silly without seriousness. I > mean, when FC started, Avon Lust on the Lyst didn't > die, did it? Exactly. And serious threads are not going to evaporate from the lyst if a serious list is started. There are many posters here who enjoy a mix of serious and fun, and they are going to keep posting serious right here to lyst. What will transfer to the serious list are discussions between posters who don't want those silly interruptions. Some of those threads might start out on the lyst and be transferred over to serious, as topics are moved to the spin list. While you can't realize it because you're not on FC, some threads from the lyst are transferred to FC, where slash and drool and character discussions don't offend anyone. It's done quietly and without fuss. Just a "I think it's more appropriate to say this on FC." What it comes down to is how irritating hijacking is to you and others who have been bothered. If/when it gets irritating enough, you'll form a spin off list. Until then you're going to have resign yourselves to business as usual. > "There are a total of three mailing lists for B7. Actually there are lot more than three right now. And other fandoms, I've been told, support many more than three, with some of them very highly specialized. Lists devoted to one character, etc. I'm sure there is overlap on those as well. > Hope this provided some entertainment, It did. Thanks. It's always important to keep one's sense of humor. > Section-Leader Fiona Moore, M.Phil (Oxon) Since I am a Godmother, however, I outrank you. :) By the way, I think Penny's promotion to "Queen" of F.I.N.A.L.A.C.T. went unnoticed by many during our recent noisy period. But I noticed. And I'll be keeping an eye on future developments. I will not be outranked. ;) Carol Mc

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Re: [B7L] Free Speech (was: Thread hijacking)
by Ashton7＠aol.com 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/24/01 4:36:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << I have found nothing in this discussion to upset me; In fact, I rather enjoy being able to hear other people's views and to put my own into print form. However, as tempers are obviously fraying, I'm going to make this post my last word, and go and watch a few episodes of "The Clangers" for a while... >> And let me just say that I'm not upset with you, Fiona or Neil or anyone else. I haven't been part of the "thread hijackings", at least in recent memory, so it holds little to no reason for personal animosity for me. I have simply tried to point out that it is an exercise in futility to think that you can affect the behavior of an entire mailing list simply because a few members want to indulge in academic debate *without having the tone or direction* of the discussion interrupted in any way. It just isn't going to happen. Annie

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Threads
by Sally Manton 24 Feb '01

24 Feb '01

Una, you're a witness ... I tried not to do this ... The Lyst is open to everyone interested in and everything about Blake's 7, thanks to the most fair and open-minded of listmasters. This means that everyone - *everyone* is going to read stuff that annoys and irritates them, as well as stuff that amuses, interests and delights them. And *everyone* also has to accept that they are going to *be* the irritants and annoyances - without in the least meaning to - at times; everyone's posts are probably unneccessary mailbox baggage to someone on the list, that's the nature of the thing. I hear and accept that the frivolous interjections annoy sometimes, and that I'm one of those who do it, and some people dislike it. I also agree that sometimes it's just flippancy or frivolousness, a sudden thought I thought I'd share, that some people feel is ill-placed (others don't - I *do* know that - but that doesn't invalidate the feelings of those who do). BUT ... it's not that simple. That isn't the only reason we interject humour. Sometimes it's actually a defensive thing. A lot of the serious discussions become heated, and people feel - or think they sees friends - under fire. Neil's comment re Shania notwithstanding, I really *am not* that confident, I sometimes get shaky about whether my serious posts are going to be met in a spirit of acrimony or not, and I'm not sure I'm the only one (Ob B7 - like Vila and his joking on the flight deck). So I do sprinkle them with 'lighteners' to try and forestall it, or - when a thread seems *to me* to be getting acrimonious - try to head it off with humour. It's not deliberate - it's almost a reflex action - and yes, I understand that it irritates those who don't see the thread as becoming anything like heated (and I'm not for one moment saying they're wrong, this is a very personal thing) and want to keep arguing. Secondly, some threads *themselves* can start to make me uncomfortable. For instance, a number of the serious ones go into 'fandom'- what other fans think and why they do/don't like or are/are not interested in aspects of the show. The recent hc thread is a good example of this. Now there is no reason why you or others can't discuss this, but if people in the group being discussed are also people on the Lyst ... well, as I said, I start feeling uncomfortable, a little like a lab rat who hasn't been asked before the electrodes go in. And I just aren't the sort to say "look, DO you mind?" even if I didn't [a] know that you and Neil and others had *no intention* of making me feel like that and [b] agree with Calle's 'nothing's sacred' rule. So I react with a joke, quite often a nervous or defensive one. Maybe in this case it *is* an (unconscious) case of wishing to - not hijack a thread, but deflect it. And of course no one else knows why I'm doing it (until I thought about it, neither did I :-)). This is a bit of a ramble, but what I'm trying to say is ... it isn't always as simple as it looks on either side. If you're in a serious discussion and some people seem more drawn to follow one frivolous interjection, it *might* be that they also find *it* more comfortable for their own reasons. Not always. But sometimes. This is a mailing list, not an ethics class and not debating group where everyone has to prepare beforehand. Some people come here for serious discussion; others come here purely for the fun and frivolity, really dislike the rough-and-tumble and wish it would stop. Some come purely for the action-adventure series they saw, and some people come just to discuss Avon. Replies are usually written in haste and tossed in with the genuine hope (and I do believe this for nearly everyone I've 'met' on the Lyst, past and present) that others will enjoy them. So do I have an answer? No. Well, how's about, in the midst of this discussion about chaff, a few cheers for the huge amount of goodly wheat - both deep-and-serious *and* funny-and-frivolous - we all get every day? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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