Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Ashton7＠aol.com 17 Feb '01

17 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/16/01 3:30:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, ragan(a)sdc.org writes: << I think it's more that there are a lot of gaps left unexplored in the show, a lot of possibilities that were hinted at but not a whole lot was done with, a lot of interesting stuff that was never fully developed. So you want to leap in and fill in the gaps. I think that's the sort of think Jenkins was talking about, too. >> Yes, I certainly agree with this. Those gaps and possibilities are the very things that spark off compelling ideas and make you want to write fanfic to fill them in. How many writers have had an urge to write a missing scene or to continue an episode after one has just ended (like "Blake", for instance <g>). Annie

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Re: [B7L] earth mothers
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/15/01 4:12:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, nydersdyner(a)yahoo.co.uk writes: << Interesting-- is there any link between this and the movement in feminist Jewish scholarship to rehabilitate Lilith?<< I'm interested to hear this; I've been out of that loop for a while (12 years of Yeshiva was quite enough, thanks). But here's Barbara G. Walker's entry on the topic from her most intriguing 'Women's Encyclopedia.' LILITH Adam's first wife was a relic of an early rabbinical attempt to assimilate the Sumero-Babylonian Goddess Belit-ili, or Belili, to Jewish mythology. To the Canaanites, Lilith was Baalat, the "Divine Lady." On a tablet from Ur, ca. 2000 B.C., she was addressed as Lillake. Hebraic tradition said Adam married Lilith because he grew tired of coupling with beasts, a common custom of Middle-Eastern herdsmen, though the Old Testament declared it a sin (Deuteronomy 27:21). Adam tried to force Lilith to lie beneath him in the "missionary position" favored by male-dominant societies. Moslems were so insistent on the male-superior sexual position that they said, "Accursed be the man who maketh woman heaven and himself earth." Catholic authorities said any sexual position other than the male-superior one is sinful. But Lilith was neither a Moslem nor a Catholic. She sneered at Adam's sexual crudity, cursed him, and flew away to make her home by the Red Sea. God sent angels to fetch Lilith back, but she cursed them too, ignored God's command, and spent her time coupling with "demons" (whose lovemaking evidently pleased her better) and giving birth to a hundred children every day. So God had to produce Eve as Lilith's more docile replacement. //My note here: This is not the author's invention. I did hear this stuff in the detailed commentaries during my years of study in Yeshiva and Agudah camp. Most of the time, it was omitted from what was taught to younger kids of either sex for obvious reasons, much like the racy or dubious content elsewhere in the bible.// Lilith's fecundity and sexual preferences show that she was a Great Mother of settled agricultural tribes, who resisted the invasions of nomadic herdsmen, represented by Adam. Early Hebrews disliked the Great Mother who drank the blood of Abel the herdsman, after his slaying by the elder god of agriculture and smithcraft, Cain. (Genesis 4:11). ...There may have been a connection between Lilith and the Etruscan divinity Leinth, who had no face adn who waited at the gate of the underworld along with Eita and Persipnei (Hades and Persephone) to receive the souls of the dead. The underworld gate was a yoni, and also a lily, which had "no face." Admission into the underworld was often mythologized as a sexual union. The lily or lilu (lotus) was the Great Mother's flower-yoni, whose title formed Lilith's name. The story of Lilith disappeared from the canonical bible, but her daughters the lilium haunted men for over a thousand years. Well into the Middle Ages, the Jews were still manufacturing amulets to keep away the lilium, who were lustful she-demons given to copulating with men in their dreams, causing nocturnal emissions. Naturally, the lilium favored the position of their ancient matriarch. Greeks adopted the lilium and called them Lamiae, Empusae (Forcers-In), or Daughters of Hecate. Christians also adopted them and called them harlots of hell, or succubae, the female counterparts of incubi. Celibate monks tried to fend them off by sleeping with their hands crossed over their genitals, clutching a crucifix. It was said that every time a pious Christian had a wet dream, Lilith laughed. Even if a male child laughed in his sleep, people said Lilith was fondling him. To protect baby boys against her, chalk circles were drawn around cradles with the written names of the three angels God sent to fetch Lilith back to Adam--even though these angels had proved incapable of dealing witih her. Some said men and babies should not be left alone in a house or Lilith might seize them.

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Re: gender and gods
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

> can anybody think of a god who isn't either male or female? Don't know of nueter gods, but there are examples that are both male and female. Hermeaphrodite (I had thought was merely acombined word but) was named after both of 'his' parents, whom 'he' took after, having both male and female organs. Loki, on the other hand, usually presented himself as male but took female shape on various occaisions, and is the mother of Fenris, the Midgard Serpent, and Hel. ObB7> what gods would the characters be? Servalan seems right for Kali, or possibly a goddess of desire and pain who I can't recaqll the name of (Finnish, I think?) Blake: Shiva. Destroying in order to create. Vila: Coyote. Jenna: Possibly Athena? No, I think Rhiannon; the role of pilot translating into rider. Dayna *is* Diana. No question there.

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Re: fanfic
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

> > Someone (Neil?) raised the question of description in fanfic. Do people > > prefer people and backgrounds to be described, and in how much detail? How > > overt does this have to be before it gets annoying? Does anyone have any > > useful hints? I would advise looking at some of your favorite works of professional fic and see if there's a style you'd like to emulate. A paragraph is generally plenty to give us a picture of an important character or setting, with a few extra details perhaps dropped in later on. Minor characters or backgrounds should be described in passing: "As Vila dodged past the guard on the wrong side of the rubbish bins without being seen, he noticed the uniform folded oddly and did a double-take. He'd never noticed a girl in the ranks before. Well, couldn't warn her about the bombs without giving the game away." At this point, if she's to become a player in the game, she might stop Vila, or might take off her helmet to deal with an itchy ear. If not, Vila's thoughts should turn to how much time he has to rendezvous with the others.

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Re: Fannishness
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

I suppose what intrigues me in a show is moral/ethical questions (there being a few Buffyverse sites devoted to this, I can say I spent far more time on thesse sites than any other sites for the fandom), strong characters who approach those questions in different ways (resulting, of course, in clashes), and a certain degree of eloquence, and characters I can admire. Things I have been a fan of: books> The Scarlet Pimpernel, Don Quixote, Raymond Chandler's mysteries, Sherlock Holmes (although, OUCH, worse plot holes than B7), H.P. Lovecraft, the Harper Hall trilogy TV> Doctor Who (in younger days), Blake's 7, ST:TNG & DSN (briefly), Babylon 5, Xena (briefly), Buffy and Angel Comic books> The X-Men, Nightstalkers other media> The Shadow, Jekyll and Hyde (Wildhorn musical), Sting, David Bowie I'm counting pretty much anything I ever A) wrote things about or inspired by B) had a crush on anyone from C) collected *any* form of fan paraphanalia from And in the end I think it's coming down to "they gave me something to think about".

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Re: another twist on the Vila-Blake scene
by Helen Krummenacker 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

> Actually <grin> I was almost inspired to have a go at that little Vila/Blake > scribble meself, but when I got to Vila saying "Look, if he does think he > has to kill himself, who am I to argue? Gave up arguing with him long ago, > doesn't do any good. Anyway, what I want to say is, he's going to kill > himself, you don't care - and why should you, not your problem any more, not > mine either - but if he does, shouldn't I get his share of Orac?" > Blake stared at Vila for a moment. "I suppose he'd be proud of you, yes. Now are you going to come with me after him, or mind the teleport?" Without waiting for an answer, he began to follow Avon.

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Re: [B7L] Detectives (on topic)
by Alison Page 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

>>a story where a murder was being investigated against a back drop of, say, the purges on Saurian Major with a very pedantic police official attempting to solve a crime oblivious of the far greater crime being committed by the authorities. I'm not sure if that would work though.<< I think this is a very good idea for a detective story, as it isn't just fun in itself but you are using the genre, with its theme of restoring moral order, to make the point that the federation has no moral order. My favourite detective author is Dashiell Hammett, who I think was making the same point about US society, as a lefty who nevertheless had to make his living as private detective for hire, and as an alcoholic in a country where alcohol was illegal. I think it really would work, and it could please 'plot and ideas' types like grumpy me, and character lovers who I must say seem to come across as much less grumpy on this list :-) Alison ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Natasa Tucev 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

Tavia wrote: > I loved 'The Quality of Mercy' in Star4 by Natasa, but >I've not seen anything else of hers. Glad you liked it, Tavia. Actually it's the first and so far the only B7 story I've written. Also my first attempt to write fiction in English. I've published some stories and a short novel in my language, though. N.

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Re: [B7L] liking 'character'
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/16/01 8:05:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mac4781(a)aol.com writes: << Leah wrote: > Nah. I just think viewers who come to love a show choose to ignore the stuff they don't like about it.<< >You mean we're not going to have a Bizarro story where the kitchen fleet is replaced by invading lawn mowers? ;-)< Heh heh...One of the primary rules in Bizarro was that anything that appeared onscreen...*anything*, whether it was a camera error, plot hole, slip of the actor or implied oddity...was eventually used and sometimes brought to prominence. Mistakes often made the best elements of a satirical universe. For example, when Grief was replaced by Croucher as Travis, we wrote an entire Bizarro story that culminated in the explanation for this phenomenon (involving were-dachsunds, supermarkets and a creche of rebels who just happened to be dead). Avon's brother is not simply forgotten, after one hallicinatory appearance in Spacefall. He shows up repeatedly, and it becomes clear that he is one of the key elements in the hell that is Kerr Avon's existence. And so forth. Leah

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Re: [B7L] fannishness
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 16 Feb '01

16 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/16/01 6:17:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, N.Faulkner(a)tesco.net writes: << Ah, but what is it about the characters or show that make them so captivating? Are there any general principles that might be extracted? Do shows that generate fandoms have any particular common factor(s)?>> I dunno how it works for the guys, but after observing 30 years worth of media fandom, two words immediately spring to mind: 1) Handsome 2) Tormented. No doubt there are other refinements and addendum, but the first two seem to be basic (with the usual notable exceptions, of course). Even in BEAUTY & THE BEAST fandom, the producer was wise enough to design Vincent's makeup so that it was intriguingly attractive to the female eye, not beastly. Leah

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