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Re: Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by una＠q-research.connectfree.co.uk 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >From: Penberriss Wendy S. <penberriss(a)yahoo.com> > >> Recently I have watched the episode Deliverance and >> was surprised to see how sexist it was! Worse than >> Power, even! What do other people think? > >I think the difference between the two is that Deliverance, whilst betraying >the sexist mindset of its author, is not actively promoting a misogynistic >agenda, whereas Power is. Ah - but is that more insidious? Una

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Re: [B7L] Servalan is insane?
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Una wrote: <I personally always think that Servalan is completely sane, and that her murderous behaviour has been trained into her by the brutal society in which she lives; bit like Travis' argument in 'Trial'. If Servalan had been living in a comfy western liberal democracy she would be a substantially different person.> OTOH, she could quite easily have been one of Hitler's generals ... <g> No, I agree, she's sane as I understand it (which isn't very far, because I *don't* know much about the subject). Personally, I don't find Servalan at all interesting for most of the series (and particularly dreary post Star One)), but - going back to Deliverance - there is that breif but brilliant little scene with Servie and Travis ... TRAVIS: It was Maryatt. SERVALAN: Does it matter? She's absolutely genuine, IMO - she really, truly *cannot* see that anyone other than herself matters except as far as they affect or can be used by herself. Both Avon and Vila are startlingly selfish - Travis is completely obsessed - but none of them give that impression of being unaware of anything *but* themselves and what they want. And Servalan does. Sane, yes, not quite human: but there's something warped, something actually missing in that mind of hers, and it's not *all* caused by being brought up in the Federation (that didn't help, of course). She's hollow. That scene, short as it is, is my 2nd-favourite Servalan bit in the series (my favourite being in Gambit, of course :-)). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Hello everyone - a few thoughts on deliverance
by Cheryl _ 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Hello to everyone, I am new to this list and have been reading with some interest the discussion of metaphors etc on the episode Deliverance. A few thoughts: I have to say that, I myself thoroughly enjoyed this episode and saw only what was represented - as it was represented, it never occurred to me that the rocket could be anything other than a receptacle which has been designed in such a way as to ensure it's ability to plough through the atmosphere and achieve orbit(or whatever) - I am not a rocket scientist or any scientist for that matter but it seems fairly obvious that a streamline vehicle is more conducive to leaving a planets atmosphere and make it through to outer space (even star trek acknowledges this with space docking for their somewhat cumbersome craft) just as a torpedo is designed for maximum range and expedient thrust through water - so is a rocket for breaking free of a planets atmosphere. As for the whole male Vs female argument - Avon, stated quite correctly in the episode "Power" (which seems to have been overlooked by it's detractors)- "...But, when it comes to a war between the sexes - you finally run out of people" Why fight? Meegat didn't know how to operate the controls in the control room (for that matter, neither would I) I admit I'd potter around a bit but then I'm not a credulous member of a race of people who rely on prophecy - it was clearly not Meegats function or place to touch anything in that room - her job was to hopefully welcome the arrival of the nameless Lord of prophecy - and as Lord, signifies male - whether Jenna should have been picked or not is a moot point. I have to say that I found Meegats obvious rapture in the presence of her 'Lord' to be representive of what I have read in history books on cultures that worship Gods and idols - she was in awe of the man - it's that simple - this does not make her a fool. It could be that many years down the track - future generations will look back on our cultures and mock our beliefs and customs, because they have evolved through understanding to a different level. With regard to Meegat and her people being shipped off the planet and elsewhere - apart from the fact that there was never at anytime a mention of this desire or need by Meegat or the prophecy, I would have to say (as other's have done) that considering the 'savages' and Meegat's people were alive and well and living on this planet - then adaptation would have occurred through the generations to allow for survival under these conditions - take them to another planet and many would die from the abrupt change in environmental conditions. At least that's my take on it :-) The final piece is just me getting soppy over Avon - I like all the Blake 7 characters (although, at times - Tarrant has been known to irk me) But Avon, is to me - very special :-) I thought Avon was incredibly wonderful with Meegat - here was a person who saw something special in him and had complete faith in his ability to help - not just her, but anyone. Very sobering for a man who no longer trusts, to have it displayed so openly with respect to him - I think he was genuinely touched by her faith. Also, I have to mention - When he was warning Meegat about who to open the door for - "as the savages know about it now" He, at one point leaned towards her as if to kiss her - but he didn't - he saw the trust in her eyes and did not wish to betray that - I find that commendable as it was obvious that he wish to do so. Cheryl. _____________________________________________________________________________ http://entertainment.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Entertainment - Feeling a little bored? Need some entertainment?

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Mistral wrote: <Or if you said that _you don't believe from context_ that Meegat and her people were asked, there might be scope to discuss why you don't believe the context supports the idea that they were told, and why others believe that it does. That's certainly more productive than saying >someone who believes they must have been told is making up things in order >to comfort herself about the nasty, cruel, sexist plot.> Thanks, Mistral ... :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On nth thoughts on this rocket metaphory thingy, I'm coming to the view that to consider a rocket to be a phallic symbol is simply sexist of itself... Tavia

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Time loop?
by Andrew Williams 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Does anyone know if there is any B7 fanfic along the lines of "Groundhog Day", i.e. the same day repeating over and over?

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Re: [B7L] Time loop?
by Ellynne G. 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:22:29 +1100 Andrew Williams <AWilliams(a)daikin.com.au> writes: > > Does anyone know if there is any B7 fanfic along the lines of > "Groundhog > Day", i.e. the same day repeating over and over? > I can't write this story. I REFUSE to write this story - But the idea of Avon living Blake over and over until he gets it right is frighteningly tempting. Especially if there's heavy borrowing from the Xena ep that did Groundhog's Day. First, Avon would find the day repeating and would think it was to give him a chance to save Blake [who still keeps getting killed (after one, very bad day, Avon slaughters Blake and everyone else just so he can go back to sleep and start over)]. Finally, he gets Blake out of it alive. The day still repeats. He tracks down every single problem in the area, learns the complete bios of everyone there, fixes every, single, stinking problem. The day STILL repeats!!!! Finally, he finds out it will keep repeating until some side issue no one even noticed is resolved. Since I rather doubt Cupid granted a Romeo-type's wish to save his Juliet-type from her 24 hr poison in B7, I'm not sure what it is, but I'm sure there would be a repeat of the conversation Xena had with R-T. Avon: So, the day keeps repeating until some heroic idiot shows up and fixes it? R-T: Right. Avon [after long hesitation, just hating himself for the admission implicit in the question]: So why didn't you tell me when I first showed up? R-T: Uh, no offense, but I was expecting a _hero_. You know, like the Doctor, or Captain Kirk, or at least, maybe the famous thief, Vila Restal. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: Penny's script
by Helen Krummenacker 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Pennt said: > > At 07:00 AM 1/30/01 -0500, Harriet Monkhouse invoked my name three times > and so I did appear before her in the mirror: > Is THAT all we have to do to get you to do a rewrite for us? Penny Dreadful, I conjure thee; Penny Dreadful, I invoke thee; Penny Dreadful...care to tackle (maim and destroy) Rumours of Death?

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Ellynne G. 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:14:47 -0800 (PST) "Penberriss Wendy S." <penberriss(a)yahoo.com> writes: > > No, sorry Neil but Deliverance is far more > misogynistic than Power. In Deliverance Meegat is > totally subservient to Lord Avon. Er, yes, but (sorry, multiple points follow) 1) We have no evidence that Meegat's priestess position _had_ to be filled by a woman. It could have just as well have been a man doing the groveling bit. We're given no reason to believe _gender_ is necessary for her job (although a case could be made for young and healthy). 2) Given some of the historical cases Meegat's worship was probably based on (Montezuma and Cortez, Hawaiians and Cook [sort of]) her behavior is based on male precedents. 3) Meegat, being presented with three men, picks a man. We don't know that she wouldn't have picked Jenna (who, with her piloting experience, may have been more qualified to get the rocket launched). 4) Meegat's use of what are male nouns and pronouns do not necessarily argue against this since arguments could be made about what constitutes a neuter form in her language/dialect and how that would translate in general or in this case specifically. She's incapable of > launching the rocket herself It seems safe to assume Meegat's people had some males among them, none of whom were rocket scientists. and requires a man to do > it. No, she requires a rocket scientist - or pilot, or engineer, or whizzo computer freak. The rocket is nothing more than a crude metaphor Er, it's just possible the rocket looked like a rocket because that's what rockets look like, isn't it? I don't recall Freud being hired as a consultant for NASA. > and once the gene bank is launched Avon leaves her, to > die presumably. I grant you that Avon is suffering radiation poisoning and that quickly leaving and getting the needed medicine must rank pretty high so, no, I don't think he hung around too long after. I also admit that I like to think the Liberator came back later and offered to take her and her people to another planet (if the Mayflower could handle that many people for months, I'm sure the Liberator could handle it for a few days). Since the Liberator had faster than light capacity, it could conceivably have dropped them off on the planet the rocket was heading for, giving Meegat and her people a new prophecy to await the fulfillment of and filling that void in her life. As for Cally and Ensor Jr, I love the look on her face when he holds the gun to her head, a sort of, "Not another one of _these_ idiots" look. Although, it would have been fun to have Blake being held at gunpoint and Ensor having to negotiate with someone with that attitude. Ellynne ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

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Re: Blake's 7 - the Other Version
by Harriet Monkhouse 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Sally had lots of wonderful ideas, and a few duff ones: >Anywhere at all after The Way Back ... bring back Dev Tarrant. Make Dev and Del the same person. >The Web ... >Expand the Cally-being-taken-over story to expound >on Avon & Jenna's ideas about pitching *her*. Hear hear! It's her second episode, only the first time she's ever been taken over, and a perfectly good storyline about how on earth they're going to trust her again even if they don't dump her peters out with "Oh, she's OK again now." Lots of scope for Cally/Jenna interaction. Er, maybe other list. >SLD - more Bercol and Rontane, please. Repeat for any given episode. >Trial - see SLD. Ditto. >Killer - deal with the fact that Our Heroes didn't catch > the bug. Let Dr Bellfriar /Gambrill/Tynus/even Dr Wiler >survive and join Our Heroes (lovely set of guests this >one has). Gosh, I must go back and look at Dr Wiler. And Julia, about that story again... >Voice - make the storyline make sense, cut it down and >show what happened afterwards. Substitute Alta Morag > for Ven Glyn. Ooh yes. I may be one of the few Voices for the Past, but this is the single thing that would make it even better. That and Bercol and Rontane. >After Star One - have Zen's search-and-rescue program >(aka 'let's turn me into a dumping ground for stray waifs') >go a bit skewed, so instead of listening to Orac and picking > up Our Heroes, he collects a brand-new seven fleeing from >Freedom City (which got dented by a passing Andromedan >fruit juicer) - Krantor and Toise, the Klute, Chenie, Jarriere, >a paratrooper in a nun's habit (wrong fandom?) and one of >those Sheiks of Arabeee ... And Garak. And someone being played by Alan Rickman. (Privately, I am totally overcome at the subtlety in which you managed to sneak in the really key bit here...) >Alternately, Powerplay - bring Fearless Leader back (yes, >yes, what do you expect from moi? This is a *fantasy* edit, Suits my fantasy. > Have the new President cut up for spare parts, just for fun No, no! But you could give Calle his fantasy and have the Chengans start cutting her clothes off her before she's rescued... >The Harvest of Kairos - kill Jarvik fifty minutes earlier. Penny's done that. Hang on - I have another idea. Get Penny to write the script instead of Ben Steed. >Rumours of Death - hire someone else to play Anna NO!!! >Death-Watch - someone speak *severely* to Zen about >the clothes he/it's doling out at this stage. Keep Deeta. Or have Deeta turn out to be Dev (assuming Del wasn't him). >Power - shoot Ben Steed. And hire Penny again. By the way, hitwoman, BS is your next target... >Stardrive - pretend it never happened. But keep Vila being clever while pretending to be drunk. Just attach it to something more interesting, preferably involving Bercol, Rontane, Alta Morag, Dev Tarrant or Jarriere... >Assassin ... > Kill Piri just before we meet her and make Neebrox the assassin instead. Penny's killed her too. Neebrox is a brilliant idea, but why not substitute our very own hitwoman at this point? >Sand ... >Let the sand bury the pair of them. OTOH, let's >hear more of Orac's rhapsodising ... Have Orac fall in love with Servalan. >Blake Stop PD overacting in the final scene. Bother, I'm supposed to be working today... Harriet

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