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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Tavia Chalcraft 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Neil wrote: >Because some people confine their focus of attention >to the regular characters (or just a selection of them, >maybe even just one) and define the significance of >any action or interaction with reference to those >characters and *nothing else*. >They know who they are. Whilst probably being on your 'we know how we are list' I'm not convinced anyone *only* pays attention to one or more regular character(s) in selecting their B7 viewing. I might be an Avon junkie with a penchant for B/A, but there are several episodes that I find intensely hard to watch, which happen to include Deliverance, The Web &c ..... Tavia

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Okay, my last word on the subject. And I'm *not* trying to be offensive, forgive me if I am, I'm just trying to put it plainly. (Anyone who wants to skip this, go ahead - it ain't my usual brand of burbling). Wendy wrote: <Fair enough, but I'm kind of confused about what I'm being accused of here. First I'm accused of attacking Avon for saying hes' less than nice, then I'm accused of attacking the plot (grumble grumble).> No, what *I* (and I can only speak for myself) saw was that you were insisting that my interpretation was invalid - and ideologically suspect!! - because it wasn't in accordance with what you'd decided the facts of the episode were. You seemed to be saying - repeatedly - that your version is *the facts* (and I quote: "the story stands: A woman needs a man to fire off her rocket and fertilise her race. A man comes along, fulfils this need, then smegs off, leaving her on a radiation-soaked planet without even asking if she, or anyone else she knows for that matter, wants his number." This is *not* canon, this is your embellished version of the story. You have a perfect right to your version, but you don't have to insist that if others don't agree to it it's purely because they've "imagined in their own minds to fill the plot holes for themselves to make them feel better, and/or to whitewash Avon." (Which is distinctly patronising, BTW). There's no need for some insidious Meegating to explain why I said I liked to believe that that Gan, Jenna and Cally - none of whom are bastards - or Blake - who unquestionably is, but not in that way - would also not have chosen to dump Meegat to die whether she wanted to or not (it's Blake's ship, and Gan is always ready to argue for what he thinks should be done), and that it's entirely possible that she did not wish to leave her home for god-only-knows-what. That's my interpretation, which is entirely consistent both with the facts of the episode as I see them, and *with the characters* - all of the characters - as I understand them, which I have always maintained is equally important *to me*. <it's very surprising that, if they did do it, there wasn't some mention or other indication that they had done so.> So how does that invalidate the assumption that they were asked, and didn't want to go? Why *can't* I assume that if I want to, and if it makes way more sense to me than your version? <But the point is, the end is still loose.> Agreed. You appeared to be arguing that it *wasn't* loose, it was firmly tied, and only one version of the unseen facts was acceptable. If that wasn't what you meant, I apologise, but that was how it appeared to me. If we both agree that that is not true - that each of our versions is valid to ourselves, *without* imputing dubious personal reasons why the other doesn't see the subtext our way, then there's no problem ... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by M 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:27:51 -0800 (PST), Penberriss Wendy S. wrote: > > --- Sally Manton <smanton(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > Kathryn wrote: > > >"The rocket represents a phallus." > > >"Does not!" > > >"Does too!" > > >"Does not!" etc (yawn) ... > > > > Okay, okay ... then how about the phallic > > significance of his Big Gun in > > 'Blake'? <veg> > > Well, he shoots a woman with it <BIG GRIN>... > > Wendy > Yes but he shoots Blake two or three times (sorry!!) M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Why not Captain Tarrant
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Marian wrote: <To me this indicates that he'd prefer to leave the command of Liberator to Tarrant or any other of the crew, and is only taking up the task - against his will - when none of them proves up to the job.> <grin> the fact that under Ye Democratic System he seems to have lost the vote more often than not couldn't have anything to do with his decision, oh no no no ..... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Time loop?
by M 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 22:48:41 -0700, Ellynne G. wrote: > > > On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 15:22:29 +1100 Andrew Williams > <AWilliams(a)daikin.com.au> writes: > > > > Does anyone know if there is any B7 fanfic along the lines of > > "Groundhog > > Day", i.e. the same day repeating over and over? > > > I can't write this story. I REFUSE to write this story - > > But the idea of Avon living Blake over and over until he gets it right is > frighteningly tempting. Especially if there's heavy borrowing from the > Xena ep that did Groundhog's Day. > > First, Avon would find the day repeating and would think it was to give > him a chance to save Blake [who still keeps getting killed (after one, > very bad day, Avon slaughters Blake and everyone else just so he can go > back to sleep and start over)]. Finally, he gets Blake out of it alive. > The day still repeats. He tracks down every single problem in the area, > learns the complete bios of everyone there, fixes every, single, stinking > problem. The day STILL repeats!!!! > > Finally, he finds out it will keep repeating until some side issue no one > even noticed is resolved. Since I rather doubt Cupid granted a > Romeo-type's wish to save his Juliet-type from her 24 hr poison in B7, > I'm not sure what it is, but I'm sure there would be a repeat of the > conversation Xena had with R-T. > > Avon: So, the day keeps repeating until some heroic idiot shows up and > fixes it? > > R-T: Right. > > Avon [after long hesitation, just hating himself for the admission > implicit in the question]: So why didn't you tell me when I first showed > up? > > R-T: Uh, no offense, but I was expecting a _hero_. You know, like the > Doctor, or Captain Kirk, or at least, maybe the famous thief, Vila > Restal. > > Ellynne Yes, yes please write and then post here!!!!! M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Mistral wrote: <Can we just substitute the Precious one for the Snarly one, all the way through the series? Oh, what a lark!> <gurgle> am now imagining him 1. hugging Blake on the flight deck (Duel) 2. in those thigh length boots (Shadow ... no sorry, much as I love him, it *ain't* the same) 3. *with Vila* at Freedom City (oh glee oh joy oh my goodness ...) 4. trying to get through the 'wade in blood' speech without getting tangled up in the middle (Star One) 5. snogging Servalan (Aftermath) 6. being all cool and clever and unyielding in Sarcophagus (this takes a *lot* of imagination) 7. in all that 4th season black leather and studs <chortle> 8. getting all tied by by Cancer (Assassin) 9. and I have *no idea* how Orbit would end ... yes I have. Vilakins would get the gun first and throw Jarriere out :-) OTOH, if he survived to 'Blake', it would definitely enhance Fearless Leader's chances of survival, because I can see Jarriere getting too befuddled to shoot in that last scene. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Warlord
by M 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Reply to Warlord post by me> >Nayte. > > Oh dear, I only meant it as an offhand comment, must be careful what I postulate in future. However for what its worth I don't think the rocket is phallic shaped. Also look at the way Meegat looks through her bunker, or at least the camera angle, before she helps anyone. I think maybe she's playing dumb. You know smooze up to 'Lord Avon', he fires rocket. OK, what was I saying about not thinking its phallic shaped, oh dear, I think I'm postulating again (terrible habit). M. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% private, FREE email for life from Excite UK Visit http://inbox.excite.co.uk/

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Re: [B7L] Re: Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Narriet wrote: <"Deliverance" by Harriet Monkhouse ...> Yaaaaayyy!!!! (Immediately ditches serious discussion for far more interesting and importance stuff). Harriet, I love you. Aren't the quality of the scripts taking a serious upswing at the minute? Now who wants to re-write Stardrive for us? _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: Re: [B7L] Not Deliverance
by Sally Manton 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Neil wrote: <Because some people confine their focus of attention to the regular characters (or just a selection of them, maybe even just one) and define the significance of any action or interaction with reference to those characters and *nothing else*. <They know who they are.> Yup. And we thoroughly enjoy doing it .... :-) _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Deliverance
by Marian de Haan 02 Feb '01

02 Feb '01

Wendy wrote: >Well, I can't convince you :-). All I can do is restate that, if you have a phallic object being activated to perpetuate the race, then a careful writer would be thinking about the implications (although your point that the script was rushed is fair enough).< But what if the writer didn't know about a rocket being taken for a phallic symbol? We're not all into this Freud stuff, you know. :-) It never crossed *my* mind that the use of a rocket in a SF series could be taken that way and I think there's a fair chance the idea didn't cross Terry Nation's mind either. >But what I'd like to know then, is why a story with a rushed script, a cliched story and a number of gaping plot holes, keeps making people's top ten lists?< Because some people can enjoy it as a bit of innocent fun without feeling the need to go digging for questionable symbols and metaphors. And yes, Deliverence is in my top ten. :-) Marian (still enjoying the debate)

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