Blakes7

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5511 discussions

Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 8:33:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, bragan(a)aoc.nrao.edu writes: << I do remember writing a few essays about _Star Trek_ and _Doctor Who_ for my English classes. My high school teacher didn't quite know what to make of it, but my college prof was actually impressed. : >> The final 'paper' for my college scriptwriting class required an hour-long screenplay, complete with camera shots and all the bells and whistles. I said the hell with it, wrote a script that was essentially a fanfic about my favorite movie series at the time (The Man With No Name from the Spaghetti Westerns), and was stunned when I got an A plus. The script became the first story in my first fanzine, WIDE OPEN SPACES #1 in 1976. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

In a message dated 2/19/01 5:45:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, rilliara(a)juno.com writes: << On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:32:47 EST Ashton7(a)aol.com writes: > Just about *any* hobby can sound pathetic to those who aren't interested in it. > Some people like to catalog insects (B7 reference! <g>) and others like > to catalog things in their favorite tv show. Where's the difference?<< >It's in the explanations. When I went through and counted every time Vader in the novel version of Star Wars used a name or title to address someone or speak of them, I said it was for literary analysis in the evaluation of character motivation*. That way, it was a good thing.< Sounds better than the sports fan who can proudly and seriously quote to you the averages of a player or team down to the last decimal, for the past few decades. Mundanes often regard one as 'childish, stupid trivia' while the latter is 'authoritative sporting enthusiasm'. We have to stop apologizing for our fannishness. We have nothing to apologize for. Well--okay, maybe for some of the most lurid purple prose, but even the greatest sportsmen get gutterballs. Leah If I'd been doing it just because I was obsessive compulsive about a show, _that_ would mean I had a problem. So, it's perfectly all right to know how many times Avon wore a particular outfit and under what circumstances if you add something about it's telling symbolism for his character (ie, did he wear it because he liked it or because he couldn't be bothered to pay attention to what he grabbed out of the closet in the morning?). Ellynne *If there's anyone who wants to know, Vader almost completely avoided anything that wasn't a pronoun when he could. He made an exception for Tarkin and Ben, although he never used a title with Tarkin (his nominative superior), although Tarkin and Kenobi broke even for nonpronoun forms of address (four out of seven, I think [but it depends on how you rate 'Old man' (insulting? familiar? synonym for father figure?)]). The big exception was Princess Leia. Vader used either a respectful form of her name, a title, or a formal form of address (although, like Han, he wasn't above making 'your highness' derogatory) nearly 80% of the time. As she was the only woman we see on the Death Star, pronouns wouldn't have been too confusing. From a character POV, that has interesting implications for how Vader viewed her. Of course, one could always argue the _writer_ did this because the audience was supposed to think of her as a person and the nameless imperial thugs as nameless imperial thugs. >>

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by Bizarro7＠aol.com 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

> >Not to > >mention medical drama based fandoms, sitcom based fandoms, and so on. > > I don't doubt that such fandoms exist, but they are probably peripheral > compared to the SF/fantasy scene. We have several magazines catering for > telefantasy fans >> Look before you leap. Not only is the unlikely category of soap opera fandom enormous, but if you check online, you'll find that very extensive amounts of fanfic are being written about them. As an example, just type in "fan fiction" in your favorite search engine and see what comes up, particularly if you put in such particulars as GENERAL HOSPITAL or other popular daytime shows, or the names of some of the major characters. I would have thought like you--that an ongoing, long-term soap opera that unfolds daily would have no room for fanfic. I was very wrong. Leah

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Re: [B7L] Re: fandom
by J MacQueen 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

I tried to resist, I really did. >From: Ashton7(a)aol.com >Henry was/is a nice guy. But, he's just a guy with an opinion, ya know, <Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> Henry's just zis guy, you know? </Zaphod Beeblebrox's psychiatrist> I think that's my coat hanging up on the floor over there... Regards Joanne _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: [B7L] Sally-speak
by Sally Manton 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

I think this has gone past a joke. Quite simply, being called worthless crap hurts. I have tried not to get upset at what feels like a very personal - and what certainly was an extremely vitriolic - attack (sneering at the way I speak - my personality rather than my views - being rather a different matter to disputing the way we interpret an episode) Wendy's comments about 'sickening crap' and Carol and Shane's approval thereof have struck a very painful nerve. I've been assuming for two years that people took my 'Fearless Leader', 'My Darling', etc, the burbles sending up the sillier aspects of the show and splattering capitals and generally having a bit of fun with the characters and the show as just that - fun, and had the sensitivity to discriminate between that and my serious comments. I thought some people enjoyed the humour in it, that most of you got a laugh out of it sometimes; the idea that I've been imposing, and no one's been impolite enough to tell me that they were nauseated by my style of prose has upset me, since there's not a lot I can do about it. I can't turn into someone else because Wendy loathes the way I think (from the Deliverance thread) and the way I phrase those thoughts (now). I'm sorry if this makes anyone uncomfortable, but again, I can only ask those who hate the way I write so much to killfile. And can they drop the subject of my worthlessnss as a poster based on my stomach-churning style of prose, please? Sally _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

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Re: What makes a fannish show?
by Harriet Monkhouse 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Sally wrote: >Has anyone else seen a little Danish show called 'The Kingdom'? And was anybody else addicted to Cardiac Arrest (apart from the episodes where they went soppy)? I despair of anyone ever giving Helen Baxendale such a good part again... The final couple of minutes had me breathless with joy and admiration. Harriere

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Re: Who becomes fans
by Harriet Monkhouse 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Susan Beth: >Suppose *some* people are limited in their > taste/capacity for that interaction; they *do* >want and need it, but they need to be able to >control and limit it. Have it when they have the > energy to deal with it, be able to withdraw from > it when they can't. Absolutely. I like people, on the whole, but I find them very tiring after a while. So if I suddenly go very quiet halfway through a weekend, it isn't anything in particular you said, just the fact that everyone kept saying something... Harriet

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Re: Blakes7 men
by Helen Krummenacker 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

> > > I *like* non-dominant men. Better listeners, more > respectful, more > > supportive, not only compared to egotistical men, > but also compared to > > many females. > > So men who aren't submissive are egotistical? I prefer > an egalitarian > relationship, myself-- neither partner dominant *or* > submissive. > Non-dominant CAN mean equal, rather than submissive. You complain about others not thinking before they write, and then come up with this? > If Jenna, Cally, Soolin and Dayna could hold their own > against the men, why > do you think the women on the list can't? I never said we couldn't hold our own. I just think they would be annoying IRL. It's my way of reversing the question of whether Avon or anyone would space any of us... why not ask if *we* would put up with them. > interesting that you > pick on the two men who are a) mentally neutered > (Gan), and b) weak and > timid (Vila)-- as long as he isn't sexual? Gan does not try to dominate or annoy people. His chip only keeps him from using lethal violence. I DON'T consider that nuetered. Vila should not make passes at me because I am a happily married woman. However, those two would not a) order me into danger b) gratutiously insult me because I'm not from their educational system c) try to space me d) leave me out of the planning I don't however trust Blake, Avon or Tarrant not to do most or all of the above. I *was* being flippant; I probably wouldn't really strand them on planet, rather, walk away from the situation while I could. I'm not a thief, after all. But I am serious about finding the company of men who respect me preferble to those who don't. The same goes for women. I don't need to be liked, but I do need respect.

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Re: Sally-speak
by Betty Ragan 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Responding to me, Wendy wrote: > > Indeed. There is nothing remotely as effective at getting me to > > ignore your posts, dismiss your opinions, and reinforce my > > commitment to my own position as taking that kind of insulting > > "anybody who agree with me is not only wrong but disgusting and > > stupid and evil" tone. [which should be "doesn't agree," of course] > As I've just said to Neil, I didn't say that. You can post what you > like. I'm posting what I like. I don't necessarily want you to agree > with me, I just want people to THINK about what gets said. And if I > have to offend a few people to get them to think about why they > consider their opinions to be the right ones then offend them I > shall Several points here: 1) No, you didn't *say* that, but, believe me, that's how it's coming across to many of us. Your contempt for some of the people on this list -- not just disagreement, but *contempt*, and not just for the opinions but the people *themselves* -- is blisteringly obvious. If that's not the impression you mean to convey, you should think seriously about the means by which you express yourself. 2) You're implying that the people who don't agree with you aren't *thinking*, and that's both insulting and incorrect. Believe it or not, people who *are* thinking can still disagree with you. 3) To reiterate what I said above, being offensive is more often than not the *worst* way to go about getting people to think about your opinions and take them seriously. If you really want to make people think about the issues at hand, again, you might seriously want to reconisider how you're going about it. The tactic you're using is counterproductive. > But take any piece of hurt-comfort fiction at random, > switch the sex of the character (e.g. make it Cally > not Avon) read it through and see how it sounds. It's > not the violence, it's the sadism I don't like. (and > note: I said *I* don't like. If you like sadism, > that's up to you). Do you realize just how insulting that sounds? How you've basically just made it impossible for anybody to disagree with your opinion without "admitting" that they "like sadism"? That's not honest discourse. That's like asking "How often do you beat your children?" As far as h/c goes, not all of it is "sadistic", not by a long shot. Not by my definition of "sadism," anyway. -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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Re: fandom
by Betty Ragan 20 Feb '01

20 Feb '01

Responding to me, Annie wrote: > << IIRC, Jenkins had a hypothesis about that. >> > > I'm starting to find the constant references to Jenkins' book...well, > strange. When it first appeared in fandom, yea many years ago now, it was > regarded as somewhat of a joke in most fannish circles, if I'm remembering > correctly. It certainly wasn't something that B7 fans (or any fans) took as > some sort of fannish "bible." Whoops, I certainly didn't mean to imply it was anything like that... Mainly, I regard the book as interesting food for thought. He tosses out a lot of ideas which I find rather fun to think about (whether I agree with all of them or not). And he's a pleasantly lucid writer, IMO. > I believe that, at the time, he was doing his thesis. I've seen > other fans do the same thing as a way to combine their love of > fandom with their scholarly career. RRight now, I know several > people who teach film history in schools and/or universities who > like to use their favorite shows (like Alias Smith & Jones, as one > example I know about) as classwork! Wish I'd had some of those teachers... Not that I ever took film history... I do remember writing a few essays about _Star Trek_ and _Doctor Who_ for my English classes. My high school teacher didn't quite know what to make of it, but my college prof was actually impressed. :) -- Betty Ragan ** bragan(a)nrao.edu ** http://www.aoc.nrao.edu/~bragan Not speaking for my employers, officially or otherwise. "Seeing a rotten picture for the special effects is like eating a tough steak for the smothered onions..." -- Isaac Asimov

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